Cymry neu Cymraeg?

What are the rules for using Cymru or Cymraeg?

Cymru is the name of the nation; Cymraeg is the name of the language.

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… and - referring to the topic title - Cymry is the collective word for the Welsh people

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And I was taught that Cymreig is the word to describe someone or something Welsh apart from language.

Strictly speaking, Cymreig refers to something pertaining to Welsh culture, I believe. So you could have something like Dawnsio Gwerin Cymreig - Welsh Folk Dance - but Cig Oen Cymreig for Welsh Lamb is ‘wrong’. Though, as with all things, the usage has drifted to the point where seemingly anything goes nowadays. Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, on election signs, for example :wink:

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Thank you. Good to know.

Cig oes is an interesting one, because “Cig Oen o Gymru” could be any old lamb that happens to be from Wales, but Cg Oen Cymreig describes something special. I think that maybe the marker for Cymreig, which as Rob says, nearly always referrs to something cultural or particularly Welsh.

Interestingly, Cymro / Cymry has changed it’s meaning over the years. It used to refer purely to someone’s language, to the point where a Welsh speaker who also spoke English could be described as a “Saes” not for not being Welsh but for being able to speak the language. Over the years, as nearly everyone has become able to speak English, Cymro has come to mean anyone who speaks Welsh. It’s quite a recent change that Cymro has come to be a translation of Welsh, with the mouthful phrases “Cymro Cymraeg” and “Cymro di-Gymraeg” to differentiate linguistically. As with all artificial changes, it is still common amongst Welsh speakers to refer to a non Welsh-speaker as “Saes” when the context is linguistic, even though they would never refer to that person as “English” when speaking in English, and it is even more common to hear something like “Cymro yw e?”, as a question of linguistic ability.

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… and another thing in case it’s all too easy -
Cymru can be used as a (sort of an) adjective.
a.e. Dwr Cymru = Welsh Water
Nwy Cymru = Welsh Gas
I’ve never seen Trydan Cymru for Welsh Electricity but it might exist, too.
Haven’t a clue why, though :smile:

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Owowow … quite complicated. However Slovene terms for something or someone slovene can be complicated too as endings of nouns and adjectives vary from the gender that thing or person is.

So, on the other hand, nothing new just need to get used to this all (what is more complicated though. :blush: )

The Nwy Cymru thing is interesting, because while the Cymru looks like an adjective, it’s actually the rather neat way Welsh has of saying “the X of Y”.

The Water of Wales - Dŵr Cymru

You’ll sometimes see what looks like a missing mutation, which gives you a clue as to what’s happening. This one is probably c;lose to your heart, Huw:

Prifysgol fach (bach = small, adjectuve, mutation)
Prifysgol fawr (mawr = large, adjective, mutation)
Prifysgol Cymru (no mutation, because this is not “a Wales University”, but “The University of Wales”)

Sorry Tatjana - that has added an extra layer of complexity, but remember that when speaking, it makes no difference, and when writing, it makes very little difference unless you are writing quite formally!

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Oh, ja … to real writing (what concerns me) is quite long way yet …

I actually didn’t encounter the language where there would be so many mutations and on the other hand they actually wouldn’t be “too important” at the same time. And yes, if I thought at the beginning that I understand them (mutations I mean) I am aware more and more every day I do not. Dealing only with those in lessons sometimes is quite a trouble. But … yes I know … :slight_smile: "Don’t worry, this is all nomral… " :slight_smile:

Diolch Iestyn - another mystery resolved :smile:

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hank you everyone. I thought the question would have a simple answer. so Cymraeg is the welsh language, Cymru name for the nation and Cymreig describes something welsh apart from the language.i.e culture…simples!!! Diolch

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Wasn’t SWALEC Trydan de cymru?