Generally, an adjective before a noun will make that noun soft mutate where possible. hen dy, hen ddyn, hen ddraig, hen win, prif ddinas, hoff bau
A rather interesting take on mutations from the BBC Catchphrase site:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/catchphrase/ysbyty_brynaber/lessons/language/lang86.shtml
You might have noticed already, but we just love mutating in Welsh! In fact we love it so much that we even bother with loan words which begin with âchâ, like checio (to check) which we would mutate to jecio.
We hear Chris saying:
Chi moyn i mi jecio ble mae fe?
Do you want me to check where he is?
Heâs felt the need to mutate after the preposition âiâ of course, even though he neednât really have bothered!!
Another example might be chargo (to charge)
Gaâi jargio fy ffon yma?
Can I charge my phone here?
If you find yourselves mutating the sound âchâ naturally, youâll know youâve cracked mutations at last!!
(Of course, Gareth King would say heâs not mutating after the preposition âiâ in that first example, but after the notional subject, âmiâ, and in the 2nd example after the subject âiâ⌠)
Hmmm, the welsh sound âchâ is entirely different the the english sound âchâ, which would be better rendered with âtsiâ, I think. Interesting how that mutates to âjâ - is that the english âjâ pronunciation? Sigh, languages never stand stilâŚ
Edit: my dictionary has âsiarsioâ for charge, rather than âchargoâ, I like that much better
Iâm guessing âchargioâ is a bit of Wenglish and the âchâ and the mutation to âjâ are probably rendered in the English/Wenglish pronunciation as well.
Iâm wondering if whoever wrote that was just getting a bit carried awayâŚWelsh âchâ never mutates does it?
(but Iâm learning never to say âneverâ about anything to do with Welsh. )
Diolch CraigâChallenges 11 and 12 now make sense. I was trying to figure out if I was missing something in the logic or structure of the language, rather than understanding that âhenâ is an exception.
I think what is implied is that tsiarsio -> dsiarsio which, in Anglicised terms would be char-jo -> jar-jo. And I think this is altogether normal and natural.
Imagine a friend has some chips. Wouldnât you naturally ask âGa i un o dy jipsâ?
âGa i un o dy sglods?â
That explanation makes sense to me, thanks Rob. I would just take the sglods, though
âPaid â dwyn fy nhsips!â
I wouldnât know where to start trying to pronounce ânhsipsâ!
Start with fy
say fyn (English vun) give little short âhâ sound. Then say âsipsâ
I canât think of any situation in which that mutation would be vocalised alone because itâs hard to do. 'Nghariad is much easier!!
@aran and @Iestyn do please help @gruntius if my efforts are no use!!
I think youâll find that Rob was joking - thereâs no such word as ânhsipsâ
Thatâs why ânghariadâ seems easier to say. I suspect that if anyone did mutate on âfy chipsâ itâd probably end up more like âfy shipsââŚ
I saw someone on Facebook suggesting that we should adopt the letter x to represent the English ch (thing church) sound. It would be easy to explain that X mutates to J in the soft mutation (a totally natural thing!), and it would avoid the âover-thinkingâ that might lead to wondering if the t of tsips mutates in other ways.
In the case of âfy nhsipsâ, there is a problem that fy t⌠is an unnatural thing to force yourself to do, but that nhsips is obnviously just an impossible tongutwister. I suspect that in the wild and not thinking about it, I probably say âyn jips iâ (Itâs quite common in the south to replace mutations with softs, as in âdwiân byw yn Gaerdyddâ (should be yng Nghaerdydd), or âglywes i ddimâ (should be chlywes i ddim).
Which all goes to show that you shouldnt worry about getting mutations ârightâ in speech, because youâll always meet natural speakers who do it differently to the text books!
- Firstly, to @aran, I should have read the thread and realised what came before what I tried to answer!! I can now see the joke!!
- to @Iestyn I totally understand the southern habit⌠I already knew that you donât use the letter âhâ if it is conceivably possible to avoid it!!!
Laughing aside, I hadnât really thought about mutating Wenglish, but I guess it happens naturally if it is easy and doesnât lead to a twisted tongue!!
Itâs hard for the non-mutating brain to see mutations as anything other than a grammatical foible that must be learnred. But to mutationistas, the changes are as natural as any other part of the language, and the rules that you see in the grammar books are attempts to explain what happens in real life.
So, yes, Wenglish gets âthe treatmentâ, if itâs Wenglish that has become a de facto part of Welsh, and depite what you see in the grammar books, foreign place names often get it as well!
And that I really rather love.
@Iestyn
and
Diollch yn fawr!!
I have a habit of âsoftingâ when not strictly correct and sometimes âaspirâŚerâŚanting?â⌠when probably incorrect. Would people notice?
Notice? Probably. Care? Sometimes depending on the person. Would it affect a conversation? Absolutely not. Just carry on like it never happened and youâll do it less and less as time goes on.
As do I - well the softening, at least. I find myself sometimes softening the word after the one that should have gone, as though my mind has spotted a missed mutation, and pops it in at the next available opportunity. I think the aspirantisationing, or whatever, is probably more noticeable, because natural speakers tend to incorrectly not-mutate, rather than over-mutating. But as Gruntius says - really really donât worry about it, because if youâre speaking thatâs all that matters. You won;t be misunderstood, your âmistakesâ wonât be remembered (and often wonât be noted, or will be accepted as âanother way of sayingâŚâ), and youâll come across as the Welsh speaker that you are obviously becoming. So, do it!