Hi Aran. You didn’t get my reply because your message was sent to me on the ‘noreply…’ email address. I then replied to you on this not knowing that it wasn’t possible to reply to you.
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As it’s been deleted and you can’t refer back to it I’ll let you off but what I actually said was ‘one of my worst fears is…BLM’ not as you say ‘i’m quite intolerant of the BLM agenda’. A lot of difference between anxiety and intolerance. As the quote has been deleted I’d say it’s best not to quote back on it as you can see how easily it is to misquote.
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Very true David, apologies, my mistake. I still don’t understand your viewpoint but with no explanation I never will. I guess this is stalemate then, good game.
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(1) I made a point of concluding my post by saying that my comments were independent of and did not relate to anything said by DT.[quote=“Pererin, post:11, topic:29945”]I didn’t see what David Thomas wrote so I’m not in a position to comment.[/quote] NB: To either agree or disagree. I was making a general point about which I happen to feel strongly.
(2) “worthy of censorship”
That is a subjective judgement which, in this instance, is in the absolute discretion of the site owners.
You and I clearly disagree about what is/isn’t ‘worthy of censorship’. I am also certain that we would never agree about what constitutes bigotry.
I’ve responded to you only because I didn’t want to appear discourteous. I’ve already given the reason why, for me, a discussion of these matters in this forum would be a pointless exercise. You disagree. That’s fine! I’m not trying to persuade anyone else of it.
We’ve established a common ground: We both abhor racism. I’m content to leave it at that and move on. think it highly unlikely that we would find any other common ground (of any importance) apart, of course, from our wish to speak Welsh – and you are well ahead of me.
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Post read, understood and accepted. I agree that we’ll never agree on certain points but that’s part of being human.
I look forward to meeting face to face at some point and conversing through the medium of Welsh (about a different subject, of course).
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Bore da Tim,
I hope you’re well?
I’ve had a long think about this and, i hope you don’t mind, but I’d like to share my thoughts.
I understand where the frustration can come from because it might feel that conversation is stopped by accusations.
However, this is how I feel about it:
If someone feels that something said is racist then that should never be dismissed without honest reflection. If someone feels offended then they should be met with compassion not defensiveness. If afted contrite conversation and honest reflection that person then feels less offended or sees the alternative view - great! That’s a success. If not, then we should really be asking ourselves whether what we’ve said is as innocent as we first thought.
Anti-racism which, as Geraint said, is the true opposite to racism, requires introspection, confession, and being open to changing our views.
That’s my feelings on the subject.
Diolch 
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@aran I just wanted you to know that SSiW has been a real haven for me in terms of Social Media. I stopped using Facebook over two years ago because the negativity, vitriol and downright nastiness I kept reading really agitated and upset me, and if I’m honest made me feel desperate for the future of mankind. Slack and the SSiW forum is now my ‘safe place’ to share things with people with whom I have the Welsh language learning journey in common. Thank you for trying to keep it that way. You will never know quite how much I appreciate what you have done and are doing.
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Thank you so much, David - that means a huge amount to me, and is very similar to my own experience (although I’ve also carved out some room on Twitter which currently seems quite nice, but needs constant caretaking).
Thank you to everyone else who has posted politely since my final warning. Conversation by the written word is not always easy, and sometimes the extra effort that is needed to communicate friendliness clearly can feel quite unnatural. It’s very worth doing in the long run, though, as you can see from David’s response… 
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Incidentally, we’ve had our first paid subscription cancelled because I posted this message.
I welcome that cancellation, and I strongly urge anyone else who disagrees with us supporting the idea that Black Lives Matter to go ahead and cancel as well.
I do not want this business to survive by turning a blind eye to racism.
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I’d like to ask a straight forward question. Please answer in anyway that you prefer.
In your opinion do you think that criticism of BLM, for example the violence and destruction of private property that has happened in many of their marches by BLM demonstrators mostly in the US but also in this country, is racist?
If you’d prefer not to open the topic again I’ll understand.
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That question does not permit of a yes/no answer, and this kind of prescriptive request does not come across as being very friendly, so please step up the overt efforts to seem friendly, even if it doesn’t feel very natural.
Smileys are good, for example
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Dear all,
I very much respect that sharing a forum with hundreds of other people from all over the world, from a wide array of different backgrounds, different cultures, with differing religious and political views is a real challenge. After all, we are all intelligent, inquisitive individuals, with a passion for conversation. Individuals who celebrate the right to free speech.
Add to this the fact that we live in increasingly complicated and rapidly progressing societies, within communities often rife with challenges, knowing how to address controversial subjects is difficult.
We have a passion for lively conversations in which we can express strong beliefs and opinions and whilst this isn’t wrong, it isn’t always appropriate.
I’m sorry if I sound soft or ‘cheesy’ but SSi is a business grown from love, positive energy and respect and the forum has always been a safe, friendly place, where individuals come to share a passion for the Welsh language. Whilst we’ve always also dabbled in other subjects, we’ve always tried to avoid controversial conversations, or challenging subjects.
We want people to be able to come here to feel supported, to feel as if they’re part of a family, to be inspired, entertained and comforted - now more than ever.
The latest covid reports from Wales are a sobering read indeed - we already know we’re in for a challenging Christmas and difficult beginning to 2021.
So please, whilst I respect your need for passionate and lively conversations in which you feel free to express and explore strong beliefs and opinions, could I ask you all to respect what we’ve worked so hard to build here and help us make this forum a place of comfort during this worrying Christmas period.
Diolch o waelod calon. 
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Hi David,
I don’t feel I can give a yes/no to an question like this, I’m sorry. I feel there are two parts to your question, and there is one element I’d like to comment on, if I may?
The destruction of property is not part of the agenda. Black Lives Matter movements call for systemic changes to address inequalities in society, which have disproportionately been felt by Black people and People of Colour. Do I think criticism of this is racist? Yes I do.
I hope this has come across as polite, I am not trying to be personal
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David, the violence and destruction that has taken place during some BLM protests is not part of the BLM agenda and has been condemned by those within the movement. The violence and destruction was at a minority of protests while the vast majority were peaceful but that doesn’t make for interesting news stories.
“Fear of violence and destruction under the guise of a protest” is I believe, an understandable emotion whereas “Fear of the BLM agenda” is, I believe, a completely different matter. Is it racist? I think so. That’s why that statement has been addressed by so many on here. Aran has quoted the BLM agenda from another website previously and nowhere does it say “violence and destruction”. In fact it actually states the opposite.
After some careful thought about whether this needs to be said I’ve edited to add this.
“Fear of violence during protests” can and should include all other movements where this has happened, not just singling out one.
“Fear of the BLM agenda” comes across as fear of black people having an equal part in normal society and ultimately being safe.
This is very simplified but appearances are everything.
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Anthony
I am well thank you and trust you are also. I accept what you say and it is well expressed but I still feel that the way racism is dealt with at the moment, although well intentioned is doing more harm than good. Being of the older generation maybe I am just out of touch.
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That’s fine Anthony. Thank you for your answer.
No, I do not think it is racist.
cf. Criticising Israel’s conduct towards the Palestinians is not ant-semitic.
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It’s obviously not racist per se to criticise violence or destructive behaviour (although there are many forms of destructive behaviour, including destroying people’s prospects through discrimination and legitimising oppressors by putting statues to them in public spaces).
On the other hand, I think it is quite revelatory when a person like Priti Patel considers that the only important thing to say about BLM is that some destructive behaviour took place during a demonstration. I don’t know whether such an approach is necessarily racist… But it’s pretty tone-deaf.
One of the reasons I am enjoying learning Welsh is because it is an act of solidarity with my grandparents, great-grandparents and so on, whose rich culture, in North and South Wales was treated as nothing, who were never valued for their talents (including their bilingualism), who were punished for speaking Welsh at school, who were really despised. I rejoiced when I read Aran’s post.
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That’s an interesting comparison. There’s a massive difference between the two, that difference is power. The BLM movements do not hold power.
Also, criticism of Israel’s government is not considered anti-semetic, according to the international definition. Comparing their tactics to Nazi Germany is by the same definition.
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The other concept that I think is worth considering here; who holds the right to define racism? The group affected by it or those not affected by it?
I agree with Ibram Kendi where he says that it is the victim who holds the rights over the definition not the person in the privileged position.
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