I think a common difficulty when moving from Level 3 to advanced content isn’t just vocabulary (that’s always growing), but a lack of listening practice. Going from producing individual sentences from English to Welsh to understanding full 1-30 minute conversations in Welsh is incredibly daunting.
In my own learning, I’ve focused heavily on producing sentences and therefore neglected listening, which has left that skill underdeveloped. It’s odd, because you’d expect that if you can produce Welsh, you’d understand it just as easily; but that hasn’t been my experience. I can complete Levels 1, 2 (and partly 3) completely fine, hearing the English and producing the Welsh, yet when I hear the same sentence in Welsh, I struggle to process its meaning as quickly. I feel that this is because I’ve so far (through practice) only strengthened the neural pathways in one direction.
For example:
If you ask me what “Lively” is in Welsh, I can easily, quickly tell you “bywiog”.
But if you ask me what’s “bywiog” is in English, it will take me a lot longer to answer. And for some words/phrases, I may not be able to answer at all. Thinking “I know that I know that, but I can’t for the life of me think what it means”
In my practice using flashcards, I like to practice with both sides (English to Welsh & Welsh to English) which I feel is helping me a lot. This all leads to my idea:
What about a listening tab on the app for listening practice, designed the same way as the current course. All of the audio is already there, it just needs to be swapped around, Welsh first, then English. Whilst I haven’t seen the code for the app, my programming experience tells me it would be relatively simple since the framework already exists, it could even run on the same progression database, only including the words/phrases that you have learnt so far from the main tab.
I think this would be a great addition in giving a smoother transition from the main course to the longform listening content in a way that’s already familiar to SSI users. Of course listening will improve through exposure, but I feel that being able to have this as a stop gap between the course and the advanced content/real world conversation would help massively. I have a habit of writing long posts (apologies) so I hope that makes sense, if not, let me know.
For listening, what worked for me was Radio Cymru - I just had it on in the background (e.g. in the car) and let the sound wash over me, congratulating myself when I recognised a word or a sentence (and eventually a whole conversation). Don’t feel that you need to understand every single word - getting the gist is the first step.
That sounds as though you might not have noticed the listening exercises every 5 challenges in Level 1 and Level 2, perhaps? And have you seen the longer listening content (many with transcripts and translations) under ‘Learn’->‘Advanced content’?
But also, as it happens, we’re currently thinking about ways to integrate a wider range of listening work into the app - it might require launching a new app, which is also something we’re working on/thinking about at the moment
You’re 100% right that speaking and listening are separate skills and need separate work, no doubt about that
Oh I couldn’t forget the chipmunks if I tried but from what I can see for people using the new app, they’re not a part of this? (I may be wrong) I just thought this would be a good way to add listening practice in a way that is inline with what you’re currently doing for the belt version of the course.
I have access to the Adanced content and I’m attempting to work through them. Right now, I do the listen, read, listen, read, listen method that is suggested but still don’t feel like I’m progressing at all. I don’t know, I’ll just keep on keeping on and try to remind myself not to get frustrated as I work through them
Could I ask why you’d feel the need to launch a new app as opposed to having a listening tab with the Target Language prompt and then English second? The spaced repitition and recall methodology of the main app would work great for listening ability and allow the learner to develop their listening in a similar pattern to their speaking.
@sara-peacock-1 Also thanks for the advice Sara, currently pop Radio Cymru on during my commutes, hoping those congratulatory moments get more frequent over time. And thanks for the link.
I completed the course using the new app having started using Automagic - I’m completely mystified by how the old Challenges system works.
I’d love to cherry pick the listening exercises but don’t have the time really to complete all the content in levels 1 & 2 of the challenge system - any ideas Aran?
The Listening Practices come with every 5th Challenge. If you go directly to them on the website you can then jump along and download just those audio files, so you have them conveniently on your device to listen to. Here’s the direct link to the first one - SaySomethingin
That one’s normal speed, then from Level 1 Challenge 10 on they’re double speed. There’s an explanation about that with that Listening Practice.
Ah, okay, interesting, you’re definitely on the ball with everything we currently have available, then. So, couple of follow up questions:
What’s your experience like with the chipmunks now? Do you find the last set of chipmunks at the end of Level 2 reasonably easy to follow?
With the advanced content - how many have you worked through? Have you reached the stage where any of them are easy for you the whole way through?
The main reason for the new app is because the structures in the current app aren’t very flexible for playing around with content in different ways, so it becomes almost as time consuming to build new functionality as to build a new app.
But also, what you’re describing is a good starting point for listening work, but there are a range of ways we can go further and faster with listening - this is something I’ve spent a lot of the last few years thinking about, because I think it’s the key to getting from B2 to C1 in most cases - so we’ll actually be looking for more flexibility than just reversing the existing content. We’re hoping to be into trial builds in the next two or three months
Overall, I can understand the sentences individually, but in the flow of conversation, I feel like I get held on the sentences whilst the audio continues on without me. Although if I remember correctly, the last 2 in Level 2 were so fast that I found them hard to follow even with the the transcriptions.
3 of the Dyddiadur Luke Davies ones so far. I’m at the point where I understand them generally after a few run throughs if I also pause and think, but just not fast enough to follow along all at once.
Sounds great, I’ve found the resources here super helpful and I’m definitely on my way, so appreciate it and look forward to seeing what’s next.
O, that sounds familiar!
I believe that the things that helped me more improving this was watching programmes with English subtitles. And sometimes doing a bit of work with it, watching them again right after with Welsh subtitles, then back to English and then without any subs.
This thread also reminded me how I struggled with Advanced content at first.
It started being released 2 or 3 months after I had started SSiW. I guess to add a bit of challenge as well as taking maximum advantage of my subscription I decided to give it a try right away.
At the time, at first listen I think I was able to catch about 10 words out of a full interview - staying really really focused, and felt exhausted after 5 minutes.
Same with chipmunks, of course.
Thread also inspired me to answer Aran’s questions myself to check how I’m doing.
Now it’s been quite a while since I last worked with the content (I always think I should work through it all again, but I get lazy!)
Out of curiosity, I tested myself with both now:
Level 1 listening practices seem all normal speed now!
Level 2, still a bit tough, but after a minute I sort of tune in and catch a lot more.
Advanced content: I have to say I’m surprised and quite proud to notice that I can start any of them in a random point, and I can catch and follow what they say, without needing the transcript and even even just keeping it in the background.
I’ll have to do extra toast this evening for my progress.
However, I don’t see any downsides in having let’s say, a bit less advanced listening material to practise with, right after the course.
Cause it all worked fine in the end but was definitely quite a jump at the time and it’s easy to get discouraged.
Okay, this is super interesting - so, the last 2 in Level 2 are not any faster, they just seem faster because they’ve got a much broader range of content - so what this means, encouragingly, is that you will still be getting a LOT of value from listening to the last 2 from Level 2 on a daily basis.
Sounds as though you’re doing very well with the longer ones too - it might be interesting for you to pick one that you don’t currently find easy, and stick with it - not doing any others - until it seems easy and trivial and boring to you. Then move on to the next.
This - plus as much radio listening as you can stomach - will eventually get you to the tipping point. And I feel your pain - this is still my journey with French, and I’m thoroughly fed up of not quite understanding podcasts
For additional listening practice I would highly recommend podlediad dysgu cymraeg (and particularly the “sgwrsio” programmes within it) on Radio Cymru (they are all available on the BBC Sounds app). Very interesting and pitched at just the right level for ‘intermediate’ learners.
Uh, I’ve had the odd 20 minute conversation (vocab permitting), but I really have to take a second to translate what I’m hearing. I could hear all the words and shadow what’s said to me fine, so it’s not necessarily a case of misunderstood connected speech, I just can’t stop “translating” back to english before responding, which is quite frustrating
Are you able to come into any of the online partner and group chat sessions in SSiW Community Chat? That would help you have shorter conversations to start with, and you can always arrange longer conversations with others in the Slack group. It’s also a way to expand your vocabulary, picking up words naturally in the conversations.
Just go to ssiw66.slack.com if you can’t remember how to get in. The timetable is in the #1-start-here channel.
Aha! That’s super interesting. Okay, don’t worry in the slightest about the ‘translating’ back into English, that’s not so much normal as inevitable at this point - so, as well as cracking on with the accelerated listening and doing a one-at-a-time deep dive on the longer listening content - and of course carrying on with Level 3! - it is high time for you to get into an hour long conversation in only Welsh - ideally, one a week, but even just one initial one will trigger some interesting shifts. Listening to someone else who is talking to you is much easier than listening to unfamiliar media, so it will help form part of the ladder to confidence
Definitely on the to-do list I’m in rehearsals for a show so I’m working during all of the slots at the minute. But I will definitely look at joining once I finish my contract or get some time off, see you there soon!
but from what I can see for people using the new app, they’re not a part of this? (I may be wrong) I just thought this would be a good way to add listening practice in a way that is inline with what you’re currently doing for the belt version of the course.
I decided to give it a try right away.
