Any vocab lists available please? Or translator?

I’m only up to challenge 3 so still very much a newbie but I wondered if any of the ssiw vocab was available in written form anywhere?
I know it’s not really the point of it but I’m quite a visual learner, I like to write things down to read again, only my welsh spelling leaves something to be desired! I’ve tried using google translate but it is quite often different (maybe northern Welsh?)
If anyone can point me in the direction of useful vocab or a southwalien translator I’d be very greatful
Diolch!

I’d strongly, but kindly, advise against it. Let your ear tune in. It will help so much when you come to having real conversations.

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I felt very much the same at the beginning but avoided temptation except when there was a word or phrase that I was having particular difficulty with and then I’d write that down on a small card and leave it in an unexpected place (inside the fridge, in the bread bin etc) strange, but i found it helped for the earlier units. Apart from that I decided to trust the system even though, as an artist, I’m very very visual in learning style as well as at work!
Now I trust the SSiW system and only started keeping notes or a vocab list of stuff I was finding away from SSiW, stuff I got from watching S4C, reading Lingo Newydd etc, and it’s only now, after finishing some 70ish lessons on SSiW that I’m starting to try to read and write Welsh.
It’s an interesting thing because its such a shift from the traditional perception of learning a language, but it has worked really well for me.

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It’s true that SSiW focuses strongly on listening and speaking, but seeing the key phrases written down is certainly helpful for some people. When I started SSiW I sometimes had trouble differentiating between certain sounds because of the mp3 compression, dd and f for example.

You can find the transcripts through the FAQ:
https://www.saysomethingin.com/welsh/info/faq
(Scroll down to “Where can I find the lesson guides and how should I use them?“)

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Diolch yn fawr pawb x

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If you are doing course on PC or via browser, if you click on “vocab” link at every challenge, the vocabulary will open. It’s a bit different from those @Hendrik gave you the link to, I believe, but still very useful.

I agree here. It’s helpful when you don’t quite “hear” words or (as it was the case with me) you only when seing words/structures written down, realize instead of one word there are actually two (or similar things) Some wordsa also are said almost the same but written differently and seing how they’re written might help in a way to say them properly.

Tywydd (weather) and Tywyll (dark) were long time the same to me although they’re actually said quite differently and written even more. :slight_smile:

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As @tatjana says (diolch Tatjana!), each lesson has a vocab file located just under the play button on the website.

HOWEVER…

There is a problem with reading a word that you need to be aware of before using the vocab lists:

The eyes have much more standing with the brain than the ears when it comes to learning things, but pronunciation rules in Welsh are different to those in English, and some Welsh sounds don’t even exist in English. Generally you caan get away with this with consonants, but if your eyes tell you that a vowel is pronounced in a certain way, or that the accent is in a certain place in a written word, even if your ears tell you differently, you will find it hard work to correct.

Worse still, it is these souinds (vowels and accents) that are often the difference between sounding natural and sounding as if you’re struggling, and can lead to misunderstandings far more easily than a misheard f / dd, which most speakers will mis-hear your mispronunciation back to it’s correct form anyway!

Conversely, if you are speaking Welsh that you have heard, and realise that you have been saying a word wrong for months, (this is especially true for simple changes like f / dd or sh / ll) you will generally be able to change them quite simply.

Actually, Nicola, in another thread where you are discussing a word confusion, you spell a Welsh word in a way that makes your (correct) pronunciation obvious, even though it is not the actual correct spelling. I’ve spoken to a lot of new speakers who have found it more useful recording words in their own spellings that make sense to what they are hearing, rather than trying to remember them according to the more confusing “correct” Welsh spelling, so that is something for you to bear in mind before going to the vocab lists.

As Hendrick says, though, it’s a good idea to check consonant patterns - is it a dd or an f? - with a quick glance at the vocab, but try to avoid “correcting” your vowel sounds according to what you see: concentrate on trying to genuninely listen to the pronunciations in the lessons/.

I hope that makes sense. What is important, of course, is that you do what works for you. You are much better getting some vowel sounds wrong by doing something a little bit unperfectly (my spell-checker tells me that unperfectly isn;t a word. Boo!), than giving up because you’re sticking to the “rules” means that you find the course too difficult!

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Hear, hear!

I had read about how Welsh pronunciation works so I thought I was largely immune to this, but there are still some words where I tend to mispronounce the vowels because I saw them first in writing.

(Plus the pronunciation does not always follow as straightforwardly from the spelling as some claim, e.g. ae being pronounced differently in differents positions in a word is not often mentioned, and may depend on the region anyway.)

This too, of course :slight_smile:

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Thanks Iestyn and @tatjana (I was using the app, so now found the vocab lists on desktop)

Im not concentrating too much on the pronunciation based on the written words but I find it does help as a visual reminder throughout the day when I’m not listening to the challenges, so thank you!

One question I have, the softening and mutations… I rarely get them right. Should I not worry about this? (level 1 challenge 4) What about the Welsh alphabet?

A friend of mine sent me a link to bbc website about mutations, vowels etc and even looking at it made me want to cry! It looked so complicated!

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You should not worry about this. Lots of mamiaith (mother tongue) speakers get them ‘wrong’ too. And much as I love the BBC, lesson/challenge 4 is far too early to worry about mutations. Do you suppose Iestyn’s children slog over a grammar chart or beat themselves up over a mistake? Well, neither should we. This is not to imply that you, or any other learner on SSIW is a child, but to remind us that SSIW is pattern rich and grammar light.

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Hi Nicola,

Not sure about the Android app, but if you are using the iPhone/iPad app, there is a little “speech bubble” icon near the top of the screen, and if you tap on that it pops up the vocab list for the Challenge.

Definitely DO NOT worry about the mutations! They get easier and come more naturally on their own as you progress through the lessons. And it doesn’t matter if you get them wrong - you will be understood, and as @margaretnock says, first language Welsh speakers don’t always get them right anyway! :slight_smile:

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When I watch Welsh TV with Welsh subtitles, I usually smile when the subtitles don’t match what I’m hearing because the subtitles have all the “proper” mutations even where the native speakers’ fluent Welsh does not :slight_smile:

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@xxnicola1987xx do you know what? Paid crio! (Don’t cry.) because crying would surely not help. It will make you just sad for actually no particular reason and that’s all you get from crying. You will be unhappy that way …

Paid becso. (don’t worry.) because in the time of learning all will come to its place, especially if you’re determined learner with big enough enthusiasm. I’m learning for about 4 years now but mutations are still something I do when they’re not needed and don’t do where they’re needed. I’m understood perfectly fine by everyone who’s speaking with me (which is rear occassion except for the chat via Skype every week). However if it helps, here’s something simple and useful

This is from Ylolfa poster “Welsh on the wall” where you can find various useful things just comming handy when you study or doing exercises. The poster can be bought here for 4.95 GBP.

Now … happy learning, making mistakes and not worrying about them!

You’re welcome @Iestyn.

Nothing like this on Android @AnnaC, I’m afraid. Well to be honest I don’t miss vocab thingys on apps because I usually am elswehre where I am not able to read/stare into the guides though. :slight_smile:

:slight_smile: So one more (hidden) learning tool obviously. :slight_smile: Maybe it’s like this ententionally, who knows. (I’m sure it is so). :slight_smile:

Hwyl!
Tatjana :slight_smile:

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I have got as far as level 10, which has hit me like a truck, when I thought I was doing so well.
I always keep that lessons vocabulary on the screen in front of me when doing the lesson.
Is that OK, or should I just listen to the lesson.
I do find it very helpful.
I feel at present I am getting ahead of myself, and I am wondering if I am doing something wrong,

I would say do the lesson first, and then look at the vocab afterwards, unless you are disciplined enough to ignore what’s coming up. Otherwise, your mind will make up pronunciations, which you might need to unlearn.

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Welcome to the forum, @jessieskinner! I would recommend not keeping the vocab on the screen while you do the lesson. I think it’s important to make mistakes, that how we learn, and the effort of having to try to remember the words instead of just looking at them will make you a Welsh speaker a lot faster. Better to only check the vocab if you really have a question, after you’ve done the lesson. And I agree with what @JohnYoung wrote, too. Your accent will be better is you learn by listening and repeating. Some people say Welsh is phonetic, but I think there are plenty of words that aren’t, and that can be confusing! :slight_smile:

Don’t ever hesitate to come ask questions - everyone here is happy to help! :slight_smile:

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" I have got as far as level 10, which has hit me like a truck, when I thought I was doing so well."

You do sometimes reach a lesson and, for no reason at all, the brakes go on and you start striving to be perfect and it just goes from bad to worse.

If that happens the ‘standard’ advice seems to be to move on, see how you get on with the next lesson, and then revisit the one you were struggling. It has worked for me on lots of occasions.

:slight_smile:

Welcome to SSIW

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If you’ve got as far as 10, you are indeed doing excellently - well done!

No - sorry! - (and welcome to the forum!) - but this is a very bad idea indeed - and may have something to do with 10 having blindsided you. I’m not surprised you find it helpful - it will be a huge help - but that is by taking away the effort that you need to be making to encode the stronger memories.

I’d guess that you’ve given yourself a bit of a crutch with this, and now 10 has knocked it away from you (because you’ve got more and more of each lesson coming from the previous material, and not available in the vocab list for that lesson).

I strongly, strongly recommend not looking at the vocab list any more - just check it after you’ve finished a lesson - and instead of the disheartening journey of starting from 1 again, I’d try doing 10 a couple of extra times, to give the previous material a bit of an extra airing, and then have a go at pushing on from 11 (the earlier material will always be there if you want to have another bite at it later on)… :slight_smile:

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Thank you. That was the conclusion I had come to. There is lots that I do remember, but as you say I definitely do need to keep doing lesson 10 again until it is more firmly in my memory.
I don’t think I need to go back to lesson 1, thank goodness.
I am enjoying the course very much and intend to persevere.
In just over a weeks time I will be in North Wales, as my daughter and I let out a holiday cottage there. I think she has plenty of maintenance jobs for me to do.
I am hoping to improve my listening skills there and to see how much more I can understand than when I was there last.

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Great - sounds as though you’re on the right road now - don’t get stuck repeating 10 too many times, though - you’re not meant to be anywhere near perfect! :slight_smile: Two or three would be plenty…

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