Just to go down the age old route … proving the non-existence of something is impossible so surely the burden of proof must lie with the believer. I know that’s a cliché but there we are.
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Geraint, I wholeheartedly agree with this, and as someone who claims a faith I have to be honest and say that on most days I wonder if I really do believe anything… I question daily; and doubt hourly… One thing is certain, one day we will all find out the truth, whatever it is!
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That sums the situation perfectly for me.
There are so many religions that i could not possibly choose the right one but i’m perfectly happy if others have.
In 1980 i was often approached by various religious groups representatives in American bus stations, they always wanted to question my faith and ended up saying i must be an atheist then,
they then unfailingly became very confused when i answered no i’m not an atheist either that’s just another label i don’t need.
As for labels, in my underwear it says i’m a medium but that does not make me psychic.
Well it just may have happened (parthenogenesis is common in nature), it equally could be a mistaken interpretation of the very rare fetus in feto where a child is born with their sibling growing inside them.
Apologies if i have upset anyone (it’s just an opinion), you all have my respect whatever your belief.
Cheers J.P.
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Oh, I had a big argument with a lady who didn’t like me asking what she thought was God’s DNA code! I went with the notion that we are all children of the same strain, divinely ordained? No I can’t get into that sort of depth. I only felt that the resurrection of Christ seemed more likely than not. In that case, there was a lot I couldn’t explain. I do not believe in Odin or Thor or Zeus etc because evidence seems to be that they were just too obviously human notions. But I am leaving this subject now. It is just too easy to offend people, and I don’t want to do that.
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Nice one John. Hope you don’t mind if I steal it. 
BTW, an oldish joke but seen recently in a Christmas Card:
A woman is saying:
“A Virgin Birth I can believe, but finding three wise men?”
Neither do I, but I think it is kind of cool that we still name our days of the week after mythical gods and heavenly bodies.
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[quote=“henddraig, post:24, topic:6517”]
I do not believe in Odin or Thor … because evidence seems to be that they were just too obviously human notions.
[/quote] How are the notions of Asgard, Valhalla and the rainbow bridge any less believable than heaven and the pearly gates? What is this evidence that you mention? I think all religions have a notion of some sort of after life with most of them having a place to be able to live out this after life. It’s not difficult to see why people like this idea, the idea of mortality would bring on these hopes and believing that loved ones are waiting for us somewhere would be comforting. I don’t see how any are less (or more) believable than others. In that way I personally don’t see any one God worshipped today, or at any time in the past, any more or less believable than another.
Ger, I’ve often wondered what a conversation with an atheist would sound like. In all truth and honesty, this is the first serious conversation I’ve had about my faith. I respect your choices and will enjoy exploring other perspectives. Do you mind if I ask about your views on the supernatural? Are you as similarly convinced that ghosts and spirits should be consigned to Room 101?
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Problem is, no-one has met the being, entity, god who would be able to answer all the questions.
If people are easily offended, it may be that they were not comfortable enough in their beliefs to be challenged. No-one likes being in the position of not knowing all the answers. They need to realise that life has no exam at the end of it…
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Richard Dawkins argues, in ‘The God Delusion’, chapter 5 mainly, that religion is an evolutionary development in humans, in particular that it is a by-product of the evolutionary advantage provided by children unquestioningly accepting the advice of their elders, that is about the gist of it. He says a whole lot more of course. The theory appeals to me, for one.
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- Whether one finds something convincing is very personal I think. To be honest, I was totally agnostic for years because I couldn’t prove a negative and found no positive evidence for any supernatural being. The fact that the ‘older’ gods were based on, “Lights in the sky! What can they be? Looking down on us!” Or, “Nasty flash of light that can kill! Must be a god!” Or “Nasty noise from on high, must be god who is angry!” That sort of explanation covered most. But, I kept hitting up against this kind, caring preacher who was put to death by very experienced death-dealers working for an army which valued efficiency, and followers who were willing to die rather than agree that he didn’t rise again! So, I ended up with a man who’s story should have died with a crucifixion just outside Jerusalem, but which survived in spite of the fact that resurrection is clearly a crazy notion! Self becomes Methodist.
- I am not trying to convince anyone. I was merely curious as to why one person whose views I respect, @gruntius, was a convinced atheist, a position I have always regarded as a faith, since a negative cannot be proved!
I do not think I am likely to have any more to add to this thread.
And they are official about it in Oh, I should have mentioned that I do not view after life in terms of human ideas of bliss. Pearly gates, I would find too ornate and a waste of pearls, I know little about Asgard or Valhalla, but believe feasting is involved, which rather requires a body. Large numbers of virgins, or even one, is clearly not something which appeals - even if they were male! (I would prefer a more experienced partner and, again, bodies are needed!) I guess I think in terms of a nice warm feeling and exchange of thoughts with others with whom I ‘gel’!
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There probably or possibly aren’t any facts or absolute truths, although maybe there are?. We have a sense of who we are and where we are and we have abilities to view and make up ideas about things using our limited sensory and mental capabilities. Our view of life the universe and everything is just that – a simplistic view, a completely personalised perception – we think, we imagine and that is the way things are.
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In Iceland many people believe in trolls and elves and in that fantastic landscape, it’s not hard to believe that. I do:grinning:
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I hope that I get to meet the real Sion Corn this year. There are simply too many imposters about and that’s not particularly fair on the kids.
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Tell him, he’s on Twitter😜
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I will be watching this one again this year for tracking where he was.
It’s not live yet, but was great last year on Christmas Eve, really built up the excitement.
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Me too!
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On a more trivial level, what does one tell one’s children about Father Christmas, or even Guy Fawkes (freedom fighter, assassin or terrorist?), or for you Aussies perhaps, Ned Kelly?
(FWIW, we did the usual Father Christmas things at the usual stages, and were fairly neutral on Guy Fawkes. We didn’t let them believe in fairies, but on the other hand did read them The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. And possibly even Enid Blyton at an earlier stage).
At some point, one has to encourage them to think for themselves and make their own choices (and with luck, they do all this for themselves). It’s tricky to strike a balance though; You want them to make their own choices, but it’s nice if they don’t cast off all the values that you hold dear.
If I were bringing up children now, I’m not sure if I would ever encourage them to believe in Father Christmas, although I think we would still hang up stockings, and put out sherry and mince pies (and carrots for the reindeer), just for fun. (Fantasy and imagination are good things to have, so long as it doesn’t go too far… ).
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