19th century Welsh ethno-colony in Argentina

Ah. That explains it. :laughing:

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I suppose it depends whether we’re talking about the establishment or patriots in the population. Let’s just say the first language of New South Wales will soon be Mandarin. And the majority of the British founding stock have been detached from their roots and don’t even register what they are, particularly the young generations. This problem is widespread, of course. But it’s very easy to engineer it in the colonies where people are already detached.

Thanks for that info. So these Welsh in Argentina are practically all concentrated in Patagonia?

I suppose it depends whether we’re talking about the establishment or patriots in the population.

Just to be clear, I was talking about neither. I’m interested in your analysis and thank you for sharing it, but I have to say it doesn’t accord with my own experiences while travelling in Australia or, as I said, the view of my friends and family who live there (NSW included).

Here’s some figures from the 2011 census.

http://www.industry.nsw.gov.au/invest-in-nsw/about-nsw/skilled-workforce/language-skills

Looks an excellent cultural mix to me.

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Yes, Sydney suburbs are well known for their enriching qualities.

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Thanks, Pete. 5.01 million English-only speakers versus 0.14 million Mandarin speakers in NSW must be reassuring to anyone who needs reassuring.

The forum is aware of one or two Welsh speakers in NSW and the rest of Australia, too. I had the pleasure of meeting the EU representative to Australia in Canberra some years ago - an Aber graduate. :smile:

Now how do we return to @robinredchest 's interesting topic? :blush:

The British population is a dwindling one and Sydney is being bought up by Asia, particularly China. That is what ‘global investment’ is code for down here. The language statistics are not demographic statistics, particularly since English is the ‘global language’ now and it becomes the only language in one generation often. British stocks are likely a minority in Sydney already, or soon will be.

In any case, whether people care about their ‘ethnic dominions’ or not, it is clearly absurd that the colony of New South Wales has 400k speakers of Asian languages [back in 2011, far more now], including 300k Chinese speakers and so few speakers of the native British language Welsh that it doesn’t even measure.

You’re very welcome on the forum, Robin… :slight_smile:

We have a long established pattern here that, because text-only communication can so easily give rise to misunderstandings, we all work very hard to be as overtly friendly as possible. Your comment there sounds sarcastic to me - if I’m misunderstanding, I’m sorry - but if I’m right, then it’s the kind of tone we try to avoid as much as possible.

Population shift is a pretty normal global pattern, and Australia is a lot closer to China than it is to Wales. Why do you feel it’s absurd?

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Well, since you asked … I’d say it’s clearly absurd to be minorities in the cities your forefathers built. And the Chinese and all the other ‘diverse groups’ definitely agree with me on that, based on the status of their cities, which are the most racially homogeneous on the planet. I have to say it’s a little surreal feeling like I have to defend British tribal interests here. But now I know the lay of the land, I’ll keep politics out of it, as I don’t intend on debating these matters in this egalitarian cultural climate.

To be frank, it’s great what people are doing here from a cultural preservationist point of view, but protecting your actual people is paramount, otherwise, what is the point? So called ‘diversity’ agendas make this impossible in the long term. In time your people will no longer exist in these zones. In one lifetime it is obvious what they have done to us and the youth demographic showcases it. And this is a one way trajectory where European peoples lose.

That is likely all I will say on the matter and I’ve done it as carefully as I can. Again, I respect the efforts here, and I’m not here to fight, but preservation and the spin term ‘diversity’ are about as contradictory as things come. And to tie it back to the theme, these Welsh separatists left for Argentina in a time when Wales was about 100 times less ‘diverse’ and almost purely European, and they still felt threatened. Imagine them now!

I understand around Moonta they celebrate their Cornish heritage, they also have the largest Cornish festival in the world :australia:

I didn’t know that. Moonta is a rural area, and that would be one of the reasons for that. If you read the old newspapers here, it is obvious there was a time people linked themselves directly with the UK. But only fringe groups still do that.

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The colonisation attempt involved a ship called Mimosa landing on a pretty barren bit of coast. The folk explored inland and dug canals to irrigate desert. They spread, but not quickly, they were settlers, not conquerors. So they are roughly where their numbers let them reach and farm. In Patagonia. They may be found in Buenos Aires, but I’d be surprised if many there spoke Welsh as it’s a Spanish city! If they had been an English speaking group just there in Patagonia, I’d be surprised if they had retained that. Cymraeg was different, it was the whole point of them going - to retain their native tongue, yr hên iaith!!,
Watch the program @tatjana linked!

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I was impressed by their drive and dedication. But I’m not sure I could stand the humidity myself.

I can see that you’ve made an effort to express yourself in a way which isn’t deliberately antagonistic on a personal level - so out of respect for that, I’ll make an effort to match it.

This statement alone makes me think that this forum isn’t going to be the right place for you.

My actual people are human beings. I have friends and family from all sorts of different racial groupings, and the idea that there is some kind of ‘people’ who should matter more because of the colour of their skin has never, as far as I can see, done anything but huge damage to humanity.

It is, of course, particularly ironic that you speak so negatively about migration to Australia from Asia - since the white British culture you feel now has primacy has only been there for a blink of an eye in terms of human history.

There’s nothing more absurd about Asian migration to Australia than there was about European migration to Australia.

Even your thread title goes wrong - the Wladfa (the name we give that colony, which is just the Welsh for ‘colony’) was never an ethno-colony - it was specifically about the right to live through the medium of Welsh. It was a linguistic colony. And by all accounts, the Welsh in Patagonia treated the native people with far more respect than most white settlers, and were in turn helped to survive their first few difficult winters by those native people.

They didn’t leave Wales because they felt threatened by people with different coloured skin. They left Wales because their language was being legislated against (by people whose skin colour was broadly the same as theirs).

As I’ve said, my people are my friends and family - and they and their descendants will carry on existing for as long as we keep our planet fit for human habitation - something which we’re much more likely to manage if we stop wasting time on primitive suspicion and dislike of ‘other’ people.

#***#

Now, let’s put this in the context of this community.

I launched the forum, and with a lot of other people have worked hard to make sure that it is a friendly and inclusive place, where everyone is welcome.

We have learners here from over 50 different countries, from all sorts of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds, every one of whom is a valued member of our community.

I’ve rebutted some of your comments here, but please don’t think that means I want to have a conversation about this - I’ve got no intention of giving a platform to a world-view that I believe is hugely damaging.

As you can see from the fact that you can read this, I haven’t banned you. I hope that’s the right decision at this stage.

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I was just hanging the washing out in the garden mulling over what sort of reply I could add to this thread, but no need @aran you’ve summarised my thoughts almost exactly.

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Very well said. I have very strong views on any sort of racial slur, intended or not, as some people know only too well.

The world is a wonderful melting pot of language, culture and food and everywhere is richer for it in my opinion.

That’s not to say there is no place for nationalism, but so long as racism and xenophobia have no place in it.

Diolch yn fawr @aran.

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Diolch yn fawr @aran beautifully explained in a very restrained way! I had been going to mention that the Mimosa folk likely wouldn’t have survived without the help of the indigenous people who showed them how to live in conditions very different from those they were used to or expecting!

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Sut mae?

Well, as some people seem to have been wondering if I am still alive or still trying to learn Welsh, I just thought I might as well give some proof of life.
And I am struggling with becoming literate in Welsh. Because right now I feel like a PRE-school kid.

I guess like in any expat community, You will find some people who real try to stick to the costums of their country of origin and others who wish to break free from old ties.

Unfortunately, the direct descendants from the Mimosa I know, have chosen the latter option. They do neither speak the language nor show any deeper interest in the culture.

As I am neither a part of their community nor from the country of origin, I am the odd one out and making contact with them is a lot more difficult for me than for somebody visiting directly from Wales.

My only hope for a guinea pig - I so badly wanted to try my Welsh - abandoned me gracefully a week ago. At the local university they are trying to implement more foreign language clases and I was invited because of my knowledge of the German language. The only one missing the big meeting was the Welsh teacher…

So I guess, I will continue studying the language, but my primary point of contact with the language will be books and television. We all have here our little community center, but we do not tend to mix. Everybody tends to stick with the center that best represents the family heritage.

So, thanks for worrying, I am still very much alive and anxiously waiting for next Level 3 challenges…

Un abrazo

Sibila

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Hello Sibila,
You may have been able to read previous posts regarding my recent very successful and enjoyable trip to Patagonia. Our visit to Puerto Madryn was not as long as I would have liked. As a group we managed to see the caves and various monuments and notices to the first Welsh settlers. We walked along the promenade and ate lunch within a stones throw of the pier. Finally taking tea with a group of Argentinian/Welsh ladies who spoke Welsh, Spanish and English. They kindly looked after us at the Casa Tostche/Ty Trotsche ( hope you can find the correct spelling) until it was time to go to the airport. Maybe you know of it? Good to know you are still ‘with us’. Dal ati siarad Cymraeg, Sibila.

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