Your learning regime

John’s ducking up above because he knows that we strongly recommend that you don’t write things down and try to make the process easier, because that will actually significantly reduce the learning.

It’s partly because we’ve seen over the years that focusing on the spoken word instead of the written word leads to a better accent - but it’s also because the effort of trying to remember and produce as much of the target sentence as possible is hugely valuable for the process of having a real conversation.

When you write the vocab down, you give yourself a kind of crutch - it will feel easier and more familiar and more under control, but what you sacrifice there is a significant part of the impact of these exercises - which are based in part of what Dr Robert Bjork at the University of California calls ‘desirable difficulty’… :slight_smile:

3 Likes

Really enjoying everyone’s contributions in this thread - very interesting stuff! @Deborah-SSi - have we flagged this up in the email already? :slight_smile:

2 Likes

Ohhh yes yes yes, okay. Well I’m not trying to make it easier; I’m just practicing writing! It’s not on the first go through. I do try to speak first. It’s honestly just reinforcing, at least so far.

2 Likes

Not that the wonderful world of science needs anecdotal evidence to confirm it’s validity but after jotting down the vocabulary of the first couple of challenges whilst in the process of listening to them, I had tremendous difficulty recalling my newly learned words and uttering them in a timely manner! With the main focus being speaking, this is counter-intuitive and surprisingly disruptive.

I stubbornly needed to experience this pain for myself before I believed it to be true, as with foolishly repeating sessions over and over. After having my fingers burned twice, I’ve become increasingly suspicious that Aran really does know what he’s talking about!

3 Likes

It’s a suspicion I only share occasionally myself… :wink:

1 Like

Sorry, @aran, but I do suspect that your method is best for new learners, For forgetters like me, especially when we know the alphabet, and have an accent (however bad and mixed up), copying… oh I have to say, my personal experience is that I ended up getting on better doing the northern version because I knew less and most things were pronounced closer to ‘my way’ than Iestyn’s accent. However ‘we’ had little conversations along the lines of, “Now in Welsh is rwan.” “Nawr!” (I say both now, usually immediately after each other!). But if I don’t quite catch what you say, reading makes it clear to me. Of course this is because I already learned to read in Welsh, though now I’ve forgotten most of the words!
I do realise you can’t bring out a special SSiW for forgetters, but I can vouch for the fact that a lot of new learners have got on a lot faster than me!

1 Like

I suppose it’s like most things in life, overcoming a certain level of difficulty seems to have its benefits; No pain - no gain.

1 Like

How long (ish) did it take to do that? I’m curious as i’ve just completed both level one and course one in a few (4) months, but sometimes feel that I rushed it as I’ll have complete blanks from time to time now I’ve started level 2. I’m tempted to backtrack to revisit, or should I just plough on?

1 Like

I did the courses, as the levels didn’t exist at the time, and it took me almost exactly a year. This was before Aran had started to develop his intensive techniques, so if I started now I might be quicker. (Not that it matters - a year to get to the speaking standard the three courses get you to is still pretty astonishing, in my book.)

I still have complete blanks from time to time (and then I can’t think of the English word for the concept I’m trying to express either!) I wouldn’t worry about it! Plough on, and then you can always come back to revisit after you’ve done level 2 (and you’ll be relieved / surprised / happy about how easy it all feels).

5 Likes

I listen to the audio challenges about three times a week in the car o’r when I’m ironing!. SSiW methodd had transformed my ability to speak Welsh. I did it for A Level twenty years ago but was always rubbish at speaking!

I use memrise most days and I read Lingo Newydd also. I also watch S4C without the subtitles…

The biggest difference has been going to a Welsh conversation group. Oh, I dread going. I feel embarrassed and always judge myself by the ability of others who seem so much better than myself. But I keep going and it gets easier each time. Honestly!

1 Like

I injured myself quite badly at the beginning of December, and am now in the process of building up tolerance to exercise again. I’ve been finding that keeping my brain occupied is a good way of distracting myself from the fact that it isn’t always all that comfortable. As a result, I’ve probably been doing about half my Welsh whilst out walking or in the gym.

I’ve found a couple of exercise bikes hidden round the corner in my gym, that not many people use. On the whole, I can usually get away with muttering Welsh quietly on one of them without attracting anyone’s else attention. However, if I do have company (as I did for part of the time this evening), I force myself to say it the Welsh in my head before Catrin…

That said, I typically re-do a session that I’d had to do in my head at least once out loud before moving on, as Welsh can sometimes be a tongue twister and saying it out loud is half the battle!

2 Likes

I’m not sure about that - when did you actually start working on the lessons on a regular basis? It was pretty recently, wasn’t it?

We’ve found no evidence so far that (short of serious neurological damage) some people form memories less quickly than others (although working memory levels do seem to have a strong impact on how easy/difficult the course seems).

Yes, if you don’t quite catch what we say, reading will make it clear to you - as it would to everyone. But if you go without the reading, you’ll end up with stronger listening skills…

1 Like

OK, but I have 75’year old ears! There is a person asking about learning with serious hearing imparement. I wouldn’t claim that, but I can’t hear as I,once could!
I didn’t answer the deaf person, as someone else did an excellent job!
edit: @aran I see that you found that thread and have plans for videos. As long as they are well lit and not like the deep, dark night of the ones of your short intensive victims…I mean learners… that could be very helpful!

2 Likes