Aran,
Wrth cwrs! What sort of intro do you want?
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Hm, yes I was also about to ask that tooā¦
Approx no of words? Main emphasis on language learning, I presume?
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Not all that much - just a few sentences about where you come from, what you do, maybe roughly how old you are, perhaps a bit of the āwhyā youāre learning Welsh - the language learning bit is not so important, because the key element there is whichever bit youāve already posted that Iām keen to include - just want to add a bit of human story to the quotesā¦ 
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Okay, how about this (feel free to edit):
Iām from Birmingham, and moved to Israel many years ago. Iām a microbiologist in my late 50s. We used to go on family trips to Wales, which is where I probably developed my love of the country. Iām learning Welsh for its own sake, with no goal in mind except the pleasure of learning and hopefully using it. I live in a very cosmopolitan country in which one can practice about 100 different languages. My main problem is that Welsh is not yet on the listā¦
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Sent you a ridiculously long PM 
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Feel free to edit, cut etcā¦
I grew up in England and now work as a Learning Technologist in Cardiff University. I studied music in London and Germany, brought the half-German family back to Wales and we decided to send the kids to Welsh school.
SSIW allowed me to fit learning Welsh around small kids and a busy lifestyle. A few years on, Iām happy to speak Welsh to anyone, and can keep up with my 10 year oldās choice of books. Welsh is bedding in nicely as a third family language!
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Iām Sam and am in my early thirties. Iām from a village in north west Wales and have lived here all my life. Although my village was once very Welsh speaking , it isnāt anymore and me and my friends grew up only speaking English with each other. My dadās side of the family is English and my mumās side is Welsh , although the language was lost a couple of generations earlier with my great grand parents who didnāt pass the language on to my nain .
I am a single parent who delivers fish around parts of North Wales for a living. Being unable to speak Welsh didnāt used to bother me at all but when I had the choice between a Welsh or English education for my daughter there really was only one choice . As she became fluent in Welsh through school and my new job started taking me in to Welsh speaking areas on a regular basis , something inside me started to change. I was getting tired of having to say to people ,āIām sorry I donāt speak Welshā . I started to feel more and more frustrated and ashamed that I couldnāt speak the language of my country. I knew that I had to learn Welsh and I would learn Welsh no matter what it took. I have been learning for about 16 months now and although I still have a long way to go , I am starting to feel part of a culture and history that has been unaccessible to me all this time.
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This is likely more than you want, edit as desiredā¦
Iām in my mid-fifties, work part-time in an office (although Iām a scientist by background) and am in the stage of life where my kids have recently āleft the nestā. I live in the Northeast US, and I donāt have any family or other connection to Wales. My interest in Wales and the Welsh language began in childhood, started and fed by my love of reading. As a teenager, I dreamed of going to college in Wales, but it wasnāt a real possibility. In May 2015, I was reading (yet another) book that took place in Wales, with lots of Welsh people/place names, and I really wanted to know how to pronounce them correctly. Unlike when I was a child, we now have this thing called the Internet, so off I went to ask Google ā and it didnāt take long before I found SSiW.
I never intended to learn to actually speak the language, but I did the first lesson just to see what it was like ā and it was so much fun that here I am, more than two years later, working my way through Level 2 after having finished the all of the original courses. Through the forum Iāve āmetā wonderful people, been able to speak Welsh with people in Wales, and learned so much about the country and the issues around the language. Iāve discovered a love for Welsh music, and my love of reading now includes books in Welsh. I have a long way to go, but I can speak Welsh - and I can pronounce those names now!
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And a couple of years ago you couldnāt have said that!
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Well, in terms of age, location, and occupation, this will be deliberately vague, because as I mentioned in another thread, Iām wary what I reveal about myself in public forums, but OK.
Iām a former software developer in my fifties. I live in the south-east of Australia. I have never been to the UK and have no Welsh ancestry, but Iāve had a lifelong fascination with language.
I can still remember the excitement I felt, at the age of seven or so, when I discovered that a classmate was from an Italian-speaking family. Iām from the era when (in Australia, at least) second languages werenāt taught until secondary school, starting from the age of 11 or 12. Added to that, there was a fair amount of racism around at the time, so children from non-English-speaking backgrounds learned to stay under the radar a bit if they didnāt want to be teased or bullied or sneered at. Youād think my classmateās name (Raffaella) would have given away her non-Anglo background, but of course I was too ignorant to know that.
So when Raffaella let slip that she spoke Italian at home, I was tremendously excited, and pleaded with her to teach me some basic Italian, including how to count to ten. And then I discovered my mother had briefly studied French in high school, and I demanded she dredge up every tiny bit of half-remembered schoolgirl French and teach it to me. And then I proudly marched off to school and taught these fragments of French to my classmates - with the most shockingly mangled pronunciation, naturally. If thereās anyone from Australia reading this who can remember a primary school classmate in the late 1960s or early 1970s excitedly teaching them butchered French, that may have been me.
Later on I did study a few languages formally, including French and German. My undergraduate degree was in linguistics, which means Iāve had at least a nodding acquaintance with an awful lot of languages, including some that most people wouldnāt have heard of. But Iāve never attained fluency in any language other than English, not even at the peak of my studies. Contrary to what many people think, you donāt need to be fluent in any language but your own to be good at linguistics (although many professional linguists are multilingual). You just need to be good at analysing languages, which is another skill altogether. There are some linguists who spend their entire careers working on nothing but their own native language. Even so, Iām not a professional linguist. My linguistics training has been very useful in my language learning, and in my career in software development, but I would not call myself anything more than an enthusiastic amateur linguist.
I started SSiW because I felt I was getting into a bit of an intellectual rut. Sudoku and cryptic crosswords were no longer cutting it, and I felt I should try to learn something completely new, to stretch my brain a bit. I briefly toyed with the idea of learning a new musical instrument, possibly the violin or cello. My neighbour took up the violin when she was about the same age I am now. I hear her practising sometimes in the evening; she has become very good at it. But I came back to earth with a thud when I realised this wouldnāt be practical for me. My budget at the moment is very strained and thereās no room in it for the purchase of an instrument or for music lessons. Besides, I have increasingly severe arthritis. Iāve given up playing the piano because of pain in my hands; itās not realistic to think I could ever play a violin or cello.
So, I thought: why not try to learn a new language? But which one? It would have to be one unlike anything Iāve studied before. Japanese? Russian? Swedish? Auslan (Australian Sign Language)? All of those were appealing in different ways, but I particularly wanted to try a language from the Celtic family. I think they sound so beautiful, and the various written Celtic languages are so gloriously, madly incomprehensible. Tackling a Celtic language would be a tremendous challenge, unlike anything Iāve done before. I made up my mind: a Celtic language it would be.
But which one? I did a little Googling of Irish, Scots Gaelic, Welsh - and stumbled across SSiW. It offered an introductory lesson, entirely free, so I dived in - and LOVED it immediately. The structure of lessons, the aural-only approach, the repetition - all of those things suit the way my brain works.
There have been hiccups along the way, partly caused by my terribly weak working memory, partly caused by my slight hearing disability - but nothing I canāt work around.
I havenāt got to the end of the Introductory course yet. Iām just ambling along at a pace that works for me, striking a comfortable balance between stretching my brain a bit - after all, that was the whole reason I started SSiW in the first place - but not overloading it to the point where I get angry or frustrated. Iām also forced to keep taking lengthy breaks from SSiW lessons because life keeps getting in the way.
But even when Iām not doing SSiW lessons, Iām constantly revising in my head. As I mentioned in another thread, I often do a kind of role play - I pretend Iām standing in front of a class teaching them something Iāve learned, or I have imaginary conversations in my head. I also do snippets of Duolingo when time permits.
When I reach the end of the SSiW Introductory course, I hope to take out a subscription and do Course 2, budget permitting. And maybe by that time Iāll feel brave enough to find a speaking partner to practise with.
Oh, and remember how I said earlier that written Celtic languages are gloriously, madly incomprehensible? Iām still an appallingly bad Welsh speller, but Iām now just beginning to see that thereās a kind of logic to Welsh spelling. So now that Welsh has started to reveal its secrets to me and lose its strangeness, itās written Irish which has now taken over Welshās mantle of glorious incomprehensibility.
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Itās been nearly 2 years since I last tried to restart learning Welsh but what interests me is what I learned about learning.
Firstly, a surprising amount of the Welsh I learnt is loitering around. At a wedding in Newtown, it was exclusively English but the photographer was a first language Welsh speaker from Carmarthen (to the point that her English was relatively stilted) and I was able to exchange a few phrases with her. So Iād say thatās some anecdotal evidence for the solidity of the SSiW learning experience. Further, those phrases were things I wanted to say not simply repetition of stock phrases that Iād learnt of the course.
The other Welsh element is that I still feel very engaged with the Welsh society which canāt be a bad thing.
The other interesting aspect I have found is that for the last 18 months Iāve been learning ballroom dancing from scratch with my wife Anna and the techniques used and the learning experience is quite similar. I apply what I have learnt from SSiW to the dance learning process when things start going astray. Iāll explain the system Bev uses for teaching a dance.
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All dances are taught as sequences of moves, so we learn a routine, not simply different moves which we have to piece together. Eventually, we will have enough under our belts to improvise, but we are not there yet.
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Any dance is built up out of a basic move, and then further moves are added once the previous move has been more or less successfully achieved. The routine is ever extending, so there is always reinforcement of the previously learnt material.
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A move is taught by:
a) demonstration
b) male steps demoād and copied, several times without music
c) female steps demoād and copied, several times without music
d) both together, demoād and copied several times without music
e) the move is then practised with music several times
f) the routine is then repeated several times in the session. -
An hour session, once a week, consists of:
a) Working on repeating most of the routines every week.
b) Extending one or two routines each week, or
c) Refining the technique, removing simplifications or improving style. -
There is always an experienced couple demonstrating, and intervening if necessary (learning with another learner does have its downsides).
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Bev and Roy provide practice sessions where you get together in a safe atmosphere and stopping, sorting yourselves out, asking for advice is expected and encouraged.
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Eventually you get out into the wild and use what you have learned and get a great sense of achievement (and when it all goes wrong and you stop and start again, nobody is bothered).
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Weāve started being able to use other resources to fix issues when we are at home, or simply practice by ourselves when we know something is wrong. We can take that so far, and then we can know what we donāt know and seek guidance on specific issues.
Being on the receiving end, it is interesting spotting the similarities with the Welsh learning process:
- On first demonstration, I find it difficult to even copy the steps. It takes a few repetitions to actually assimilate and understand what is being demonstrated.
- Understanding is an iterative process. so you think you have copied, but then you realise what you thought you had done doesnāt match and it takes several iterations to self-correct into the right moves.
- Practising things wrong repeatedly doesnāt help! However, you can āmark yourselfā and learn to watch what you are doing.
- Continual reinforcement helps.
- Increasing complexity forces the basics into automatic.
- Glimmers of understanding come about rather than being totally dependent on being spoon fed.
Anyway, I thought it was interesting to come across two different teaching systems that can ultimately be seen as using the same fundamentals of learning: demonstration, repetition, reinforcement.
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Yes, very much so - huge amounts in commonā¦
Thank you ALL so much - really brilliant stuffā¦ 
I think I should have said SUCCESSFUL teaching systems.
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Hi Conrad ā just a quick question ā which video is this? Can you point me to it?
Many thanks!
Richard
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Cant find it now but itshould be on intensive Welsh learning section.
Can you remember a bit about what was in it? Iām not sure which one you meanā¦
I read your small book about intensive learning then saw the video after the first 5 day intensive course for absolute beginners. I think that is what I refered to.
I then did my own intensive course based on your plan.
I used the course one and two of the newer course, i.e. challege courses.
Week one I went over 3 lessons in the morning and 3 in the afternoon, (I had to fit in one more on day one to complete the 25 lesssons) plus a 5 minute listen to the Chipmunks am and pm. Then in the evening I made up sentances for one hour using flash cards showing a word of phrase to stimulate the sentance and finished off with another chipmunk session.
Week two was the same except I was now using course 2 of the challenges curiculum.
Week one was from monday to thursday, then a break completely until the following monday when I did the 4 days rorutine again .
After each lesson I had a short break of 1 to 15 minutes for a coffee and often a banana.
It was hardwork but while it is difficult to self assess especially when you already have a fair grasp of the language I believe it was worth while and feel when I use the language now I am not thinking in english, translating and then saying something but I just let it flow out of my mouth. It is often not great grammer and I often slip in an english word (with no apology) and just carry on.
No one would confuse me for a first language Welsh speaker but I am relaxed in Welsh coffee mornings or when meeting someone out in the wild so to speak.
Hope the above helps someone.
Incidentally I am now learning Spanish with SSIS confident in the knowledge that the system works and all I have to do is stick at it
Conrad
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That sounds like an absolute sweeping victory - llongyfarchiadau! 
Was the video about what the learners had done? And maybe you used the āwhat do we doā blueprint document?
I am coming late to this as always, but here is my contribution.
Background: my maternal grandparents were bilingual but did not pass the language on to their daughters, both of whom moved to England in their late teens in the 1930s. They remembered just enough to use Welsh as a secret language for gossip that was not suitable for the children. I learned āBore daā, āDiolch yn fawrā but not much else. My fatherās family lost the language a generation earlier. My father must have felt the loss because I found a copy of āTeach Yourself Welshā in his bookcase. The first 2-3 pages had notes in his handwriting.
āgo through the lessons without repeating anyā
At the start I was repeating each lesson 2-3 times. Then I got to 13, got stuck, and left it for a while. I discussed this on another thread, then decided to go through to 25 without any repetition. I finished, went back to 12, and have now got to 17 without further repetition, remembering so much more this time. I am hoping to make it to 25 again and then take breath before attempting level 2.
ānot use the pause buttonā
I do not use the pause button since I got the e-mail telling me not to. As an experiment I did try it once. I found that I could say everything much more accurately and completely, however I was painfully slow, and getting slower and slower as I continued. I concluded that the pause button is not helpful.
ādo the listening exercisesā
Since reaching challenge 10 I have put listening exercises 2 to 5 on a playlist and I try to listen every day. I can understand pretty much all of 2, and words here and there from the others, a bit more each time.
āget a conversation partnerā
No immediate prospect of this. Skype might be possible if only the sound quality was better. I have major problems understanding my daughter in English.
āunderstand different accentsā
I am doing the South course, but I also listen to the North listening exercises to give variety. I find that Catās accent sounds familiar, whereas Caitlin sounds beautifully exotic and foreign. My family were all from Carmarthenshire/Swansea/North Pembrokeshire.
ādeal with words being different from what you remember in schoolā
N/a. I was born in England and have always lived here. My mother remembered a few words and I learned them from her. She pronounced āllaethā differently. (We had it written on a jug.) That does bother me a bit.
āput off readingā
Not at all. I have read āCwm Gwrachodā and I have started āCoed y Breninā. I did do a fair bit of Duolingo and Memrise before I discovered SSiW, so the written word is reasonably familiar.
āaccept all the different ways of saying the same thingā
I reckon that if I can recognise and understand different ways of saying something then that is enough. I donāt have to say something in all possible ways.
āavoid worrying about grammarā
I donāt exactly worry, but I do like to know what is going on.
āavoid worrying about plateausā
There are times when I ask myself why on earth I am doing this. To try to delay the onset of dementia?
āgetting used to saying Rā
Very difficult for me in any language.
āgetting used to saying Llā
No problem. I learned it from my mother, though only to say place names. There were relations in Llanllwch, so I learned to say that.
āgetting used to saying Chā
Pretty much OK. That comes in Llanllwch too.
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Yes. I used your blueprint exactly. Worked for me. Thanks Aran
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