I’ve always said it to rhyme with higher mount if that makes sense. It is a bit of a gobful though, so if there’s a more efficient way to say it, I’d be happy to know about it. 
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I like that 
If I were to break it down,
Caer (I’m guessing everyone is happy with this bit?)
Grawnt - growl but replace the -l with an -nt so grownt (like brow)
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Thanks, both. Actually it was the Caer bit that I was wondering about. So it looks like Caergrawnt has the N & W Kire, rather than the SE Care? (sorry about the dodgy phonetics).
yeah mostly. The southern pronunciation of Caerdydd is more of a “C’dydd” shorter are largely dropped. Same with C’fyrddin. Then it’s a bit longer in Sir Gâr. So Caergrawnt could be more of a Cârgrawnt but it doesn’t tend to get shortened as much as the first two.
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One of my tutors, David, always takes pleasure in adding an aspirate mutation to people’s names. “Sut wyt ti, Gavin a Chatherine?” “Dw i’n mynd â Cholin”…
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I shouldn’t, but I do get bugged by care-filly - it sounds really odd to me. The joke about making the cheese carefully bugs me even more. C’filly is probably the most common pronunciation and you do have to be speaking Welsh to say Caerffili properly - it just doesn’t work in English.
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Yes, in rapid English speech “I’m going to Caerphilly” becomes “I’m goin’ ter Gervilly”.
At least mutatuons in Welsh follow set patterns- sometimes we forget how confusing English can be, with such a variety of exceptions, oddities and unique usages…
Except for the exceptions!
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I’ve got to say that I don’t mind the Gwenhywsig Care/Kair, ma, mas etc for southern pronunciation. It seems pretty easy as that’s the way that my English has gone.
On trips up North and out West (Wales), I’ll definitely be happy to go for the proper caer/Kire. I might even go for Car on trips to the Scottish border counties. Is that the genuine pronunciation for Caerlewlydd/Caerluel/Carlisle?
As always, I’m more than happy to learn by gentle correction.
Yes, mae o’n gywir, Margaret, according to what I’ve been taught, which is that you only mutate if it’s a Welsh-language place-name (including Welsh names for foreign places, e.g. “o Lundain”, “i Groesoswallt”, but “o Melbourne”.
Likewise “Tesco” should never be mutated, nor any Christian name – Welsh or otherwise.
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Ah, now that’s interesting, as I’ve been wondering about these things for Cornish too and there doesn’t seem to be an exact consensus. We DO mutate place names if they’re Cornish, but also personal names as well. However, I think it’s conventional to mutate only personal names of Cornish origin (Peder (Cornish equivalent of Peter) becomes Beder, Briallen (“primrose”) - Vriallen, etc.).
At least I hope this is the case, as I happen to have a thing about my own name being fiddled with and if anyone ever mutates me to Gourtenay (second state mutation) — let alone Hourtenay (third) — I will personally bite them. 
(I rather like Tesco becoming Nhesco, by the way. We would merely make it Desco, which doesn’t sound quite as funny. “My a wra mos dhe Desco” — “I’m going to Tesco.” Or it would be Thesco in third mutation, but the only examples I can think of where that would happen are “ow Thesco”, “hy Thesco” and “aga Thesco” — “my Tesco”, “her Tesco” and “their Tesco”. Which I can’t quite imagine anyone needing to say in everyday life. 
)
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Yes, i think likewise here that names of people that form part of a place name can be mutated. Pedr, Dewi, Mair etc after the word Llan or lan if it is also mutated.
My Tesco could be one of those website accounts or perhaps they might decide to use it to name their custmer loos in the hope of implying ownership responsibility. However would you mutate an abreviation anyway?
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Can of worms over Cornish mutation, Courtenay! I spent a year learning Kemyn in London with the Kres Kernewek, and fortunately for me we never touched on mutation, but my impression is that Cornish is no longer as strict about the rules as Welsh is.
There are historical reasons for this, probably revolving around the extent to which traditional Cornish (pre-revival) had become corrupted prior to its extinction as a community vernacular in about 1800. Revived Cornish doesn’t seem to have thoroughly addressed the issue, but it’s likely that the Cornish Language Board, etc are working on it. Tony Hak is the man to ask, or Polin Prys.
As you know, some of the same letters mutate in Kernewek as in Cymraeg, and also in Breton, which shows that Proto-Brythonic (the language of the Ancient Britons) must also have used it.
This link shows the confusion only ten years ago over the rules:
http://www.cornwall24.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4870
Whew!
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Thanks, Wrexhamian. I haven’t noticed any huge contentions over mutations in my 2 or 3 years of learning the language — I can only assume we have come to a genuine consensus over most things, at least with how the revived language works, in the years since that online discussion. All my Cornish textbooks are very clear about which letters mutate and how and when, and I’ve never come across any major disagreements at all. The only “not as strict about the rules” provision I’ve noticed is that first grade exam students (I’ve recently completed mine) don’t lose marks for wrong mutations!!
I know Tony and Polin, so I might ask one of them about the mutation of non-Cornish names. I don’t think I’ve seen that covered in any textbooks, but I may be wrong. I know I did pick up somewhere that it’s generally agreed that non-Cornish names don’t mutate — I just can’t remember where I read or heard that! I’ll be in touch with Tony about a translation matter some time in the next month or two, so I may throw that in.
Now if only we could one day come to an accepted consensus about spelling (far bigger can of worms)… 
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Sounds as if things have moved on since 2009, Courtenay. That’s encouraging.
Tony Hak will know about mutation rules for place-names, of course. My guess is that the same protocol applies in Cornish as in Welsh (i.e. mutate Welsh place-names only, plus exceptions like Manceinion.
Wouldn’t it be nice if Welsh-speakers made an exception and agreed to mutate Cornish and Breton place-names as well!
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Yes. 
Actually, I probably would mutate Welsh place names if they start with a letter that mutates — “My eth dhe Gardydh” (I went to Cardiff) just sounds natural. But “My eth dhe Velbourne” doesn’t. Possibly because I’m from Melbourne originally!!
One last thing, Courtenay. Do the Cornish have names for English towns or cities (other than London)? I know that the Scottish and Welsh capitals have one.
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A few — London is Loundres, for a start. Exeter is Karesk and Plymouth is Aberplymm. I’m not sure if there are any others, or if in cases where we don’t have a historic version of the name on record we might just do a literal translation (again, like Aberplymm — I have a feeling that’s a modern calque). Cardiff is Kardydh, but that’s just a Cornish-style spelling of Caerdydd. I’m not sure what we call Edinburgh!!
For the record, Wales in Cornish is Kembra and the Welsh language is Kembrek. What do you call Cornwall and the Cornish language (Kernow and Kernewek to us)?
According to the “Ap Geiriaduron” (dictionary app) it’s Cernyw and Cernyweg.
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Pur dha (da iawn to you) Would you mutate Cernyw and Cernyweg in appropriate circumstances, then? I would naturally say “dhe Gembra” for “to Wales” and mutate Kembrek as an adjective, for example after a feminine singular noun — “an gath Gembrek” = “the Welsh cat”. 
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