I started with pobl y cwm. Hwb.and dramas. Also heno and pnawn dda is a great way to start I still watch with english subtitles learning new words daily and reading the english translation helps ti fi a cyw is also fun. But just watchas much as possible have a welsh day no english tv and good luck
I watched Peppa Pinc today and got on ok with it - maybe because Iāve been subjected to every English episode hundreds of times!! Also found Wil Cwac Cwac on youtube which I remember from childhood and that wasnāt too bad either.
Hi Dinas - Not me - I was home in Laugharne doing the Common Walk (still recovering).
Has anyone come across the educational concept called the āzone of proximal developmentā? - Iām not an educationalist myself and may not have fully understood it but it seems relevant to this discussion topic. (itās on Wikipedia of course).
It seems to me that when I listen to a childrenās TV programme or a clear, well structured discussion within a documentary I am within my ZPD and I am learning reasonably effectively. However when I try to listen to more unstructured āreal-lifeā conversation most of it passes me by and I gain little from it. (itās outside my ZPD). As I gain language skills my ZPD will hopefully extend into the more natural, unstructured conversations. Subtitles fit very neatly into this idea too as they bring language that would otherwise be beyond the learner into their ZPD.
I know it sounds a bit poncey but itās worth having a quick read - some people may find it useful.
Interesting. Will have to take a look. I know of a similar sounding theory that talks about getting yourself in the āflow channelā, ie. optimal learning state. To one side is boredom (too easy) and the other is anxiety (too hard). Sounds very much like what you mention, Bill:
Yeah, I think ZPD is important, and pretty much what weāre going to be trying to build a road with for our post-Level 3 listening sessions.
Flow is really important, too - trying to design sessions that hit the flow channel for every user is an, um, interesting (as in āutterly impossibleā) challengeā¦
Bill a pawb - how do you find it with phone conversations? They have a different set of recognition values - or whatever we call them - to āface to faceā. Highlighted for me yesterday, struggling to keep a call to the Eisteddfod Office going - failed.
This is always the difficulty with phones, because so much communication is non-verbal. We donāt realise how much we rely on body language cues. And with Welsh there is always the temptation to switch to English, unlike with other languages. I have several experiences of France where I just had to struggle on because the person with whom I was speaking simply had no English, but this will pretty much never be the case with certain languages, like Welsh, or to a lesser extent Swedish/Danish. When youāre not making your point in a foreign language the next stop is always sign language, but when you know that you and the person youāre speaking to are both fluent in English it seems a little odd to start using sign language.
Bontddu: but when you know that you and the person youāre speaking to are both fluent in English it seems a little odd to start using sign language.
Ah, memories of bootcamp come flooding backā¦
I suspect, Bontddu, that this is what people mean when thye say how difficult Welsh is to learn. Welsh is not difficult to learn well enough to communicate and say a lot of what you need to say - Restaurant Welsh as it were - but it is difficult to learn to a point where you can speak comfortably enough to not have the urge to slip into English. Until SSiW, it was also exceptionally difficult to practice enough of what you learnt to be comfortable enough to use it, which is why most learners never get beyond the class-room.
Phones - Hmm. - I have a few sympathetic work colleagues who are prepared to speak Welsh to me on the phone but Iām ashamed to say that when presented with the Welsh option I wimp out and āGwasgwchā the other button. tut tut.
As for non-verbal aspects of communication it can be a good exercise to be deprived of it sometimes so that youāre forced to focus on the spoken language. Personally when watching S4C I often slip into a lazy habit of picking out a few key words whilst relying on the non-verbals and the visual story line to follow what is going on. For me the solution is radio. - Radio Cymru i-player is good.
I picked up a useful idea from an on-line French tutor who suggested finding pieces of spoken language and listening really carefully to a section whilst trying to hear as much detail as possible. Use pause and repeat to help with this. I tried this for a while on the i-player and did find it helpful but ultimately it felt a bit too much like hard work!
Iestyn : ā Until SSiW, it was also exceptionally difficult to practice enough of what you learnt to be comfortable enough to use it, which is why most learners never get beyond the class-room.ā
- I couldnāt agree more. Iāve tried the classroom many times but my Welsh was completely stalled until I discovered SSIW so thank you SSIW.
Iāve been trying to stick to Welsh as much as possible on the phone lately, choosing the Welsh option every time there is on. In general Iāve found the person on the other end to be quite patient and willing to speak clearly, sounding pleased that Iām making an effort. Only a couple of times Iāve struggled and had to keep saying āSori?ā or cheating with āMaeār ffĆ“n 'maān ofnadwy. Maeān anodd eich clywed chiā but I try to be positive and think that perhaps I sounded like enough of a Welsh speaker that they didnāt realise I was a learner!
I chat with my ffrindiath each week on the phone. It is hard because I have to listen very carefully, but I am determined to carry on with the phone as it is excellent listening practice!