To translate a question such as “Do you need anything from the supermarket?”, how is ‘from’ translated? I would be tempted to translate as “Wyt ti angen unrhywbeth o’r archfarchnad?” but that doesn’t seem quite right though transliterated from English it does. Would “Wyt ti angen unrhywbeth yr arfarchnad?” be? The latter somehow ‘feels’ better.
I’d say “o’r” here.
Un rhywbeth yr arfarchnad -is something of the supermarket (something that belongs to the supermarket)
yep, definitely the first one with the o.
Not something I’d ask if I had the choice, but how about squeezing a “nol” in there for fetching? Rwyt tin angen unrhywbeth nôl o’r archfarchnad?
hmmm - the thing I’d use for fetch would be “Wyt ti angen i mi dod ag unrhywbeth nôl o’r archfarchnad?”
Fetch in the sense of bring back is dod â nôl, so I think you’d need that in there, not just the nôl, (although I suspect people would know what you meant with just the nôl).
That’s a weird one Siaron, I think I’d say “ga i nôl rhywbeth o’r arfarchnad i ti?”
Or I guess “wyt ti angen i mi ddod â rhywbeth o’r archfarchnad?” I guess. But something about that sounds a bit, I don’t know, odd.
I wouldn’t use “dod â” and “nôl” in the same sentence just like I wouldn’t say bring and fetch together in english.
Thinking about it now (posted way past my bed time last night - late night, long story!) nôl on it’s own as fetch does work (dwi’n mynd i nôl panad etc), but in John’s sentence it feels in the wrong place/construct somehow - I’m wondering if Rwyt ti angen unrhywbeth wedi’i nôl o’r archfarchnad would be better which of course translates more like ‘do you want anything fetched from the supermarket’. What makes me think that is my Wenglish roots - after all, in Wenglish the ‘bad’ English constructions would have developed from the original correct Welsh ones, and ‘do you want anything fetched’ was pretty commonplace back home in hwntwland.
Does that make sense or am I digging a deeper hole here?!
Palu, palu, palu.
Basically, in the original question, the first attempt was correct. I.e. from in this instance is “o”.
That doesn’t quite work (on word order) but you’d be fine with:
Wyt ti angen nôl unrhywbeth o’r archfarchnad?
Wyt ti angen i mi nôl unrhywbeth o’r archfarchnad i ti?
Getting a bit away from the original question here, but do people still refer to negeseuon?
Wyt ti angen i mi nôl dy negeseuon o’r siop?
I’m enjoying (and learning) from the responses to my original question so thank you everyone for them. I enquired as a result of checking out the Duolingo site since it has been mentioned in posts. I started the proficiency test out of curiosity and early on it asked to translate into English a sentence that went something like “Wyt ti eisiau afalau y siop?”. Hence my query re. the “y siop” bit. I thought that I would have used the structure with “o’r siop” (mentioned this in the ‘response’ bit of the site but closed the program and then didn’t know how to get back to it) but thought that “y siop”/of the shop" might be a more Welsh way of expressing it since as the shop owns the apples till they’re bought it would seem quite logical. Since the Duolingo site is American, I needed to check which the correct/preferred native speaker’s way of asking the question, or a similar one, would be.
I must say that the “y siop” version seems to roll off the tongue quite nicely but seeing that the weight of response from you all is in the other direction I’ll stick with your opinions.
Grateful as ever for your insights and advice. I just love this site.
Well, here’s an example from the Book of the Year 2016:
That’s interesting. I always thought it was a Northern (British) term; message, that is. Ah, well, I’ve learnt something new today.
Also, interestingly, uses the “nôl … o’r siop” pattern (so still on-topic )
And the GPC has the origin of neges being a loan from Latin necesse “it is necessary”, and gives as the first sense “an errand, a task” before it goes on to messages. So I guess it’s something like “running an errand”, although it also reminds me a bit of French faire des négoces (‘doing business’).
In Scotland (well, I only really know about the central belt) they talk about ‘fetching messages’ from shops.
I’ve definitely heard someone around here talk about needing to go to town for a few ‘negeseuon’, and I was glad I’d read it in a book previously or I could have been a bit confused.
Ah, well, I AM confused! Messages are errands? And you fetch them from the shop?
Ha ha. We are noticing that the words message, errand and mission are interlinked and fairly well international. In this case, going on a short trip to deliver or collect something on behalf of another, eg some shopping.
Diolch @JohnYoung! As soon as you said mission, it brought up exactly what shopping is for me!