My real love involves 15 husky men and an ovalish ball! I only got interested in ordinary pel-droed when we did so well in Europe! This is a very friendly forum, I’m sure somebody will give you better info. Until then, take pot luck. Likely you’ll be understood!
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OK, I’m having one of those rare grammar-freak-out moments. Perhaps the long-suffering @garethrking (or anyone else) might be able to shed some light on this?
Regarding sentences that trail off with one of those conjugating preposition thingies, I am never sure what to do with them, and am getting fed up of avoiding them.
For example:
The sentences that I’m not sure about.
Y brawddegau dw i ddim yn siwr am.
Y brawddegau dw i ddim yn siwr amdanyn nhw.
Y brawddegau dw i ddim yn siwr amdanynt.
Y brawddegau dw i ddim yn siwr amdan. (I’m sure I’ve heard this somewhere, which seems a kind of half way house!)
Can you get away with not conjugating it at all, as in the first one? Is there an element of personal taste or dialect involved? Which of the variants above are specifically correct/incorrect?
Similarly:
What are you looking for?
Beth wyt ti’n chwilio amdani?
Beth wyt ti’n chwilio am? (Is this wrong or not?)
The things that you were talking about.
Y pethau o’t ti’n siarad am.
Y pethau o’t ti’n siarad amdan.
Y pethau o’t ti’n siarad amdanyn nhw.
What was the music that you were listening to?
Beth oedd y gerddoriaeth o’t ti’n gwrando arni?
Did they get what they paid for?
Gaeton nhw beth wnaethon nhw dalu am?
Gaeton nhw beth wnaethon nhw dalu amdano fe?
The pictures that they were looking at.
Y lluniau o’n nhw’n edrych arnyn nhw.
Thanks v much for reading!!
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What are you looking for?
Am beth yw ti’n chwilio?
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Wish i could help…
But for
The sentences that I’m not sure about.
Do we need a bod in there somewhere?
Diolch! That’s my normal kind of workaround, but for some reason I’ve got a feeling you can do it the other way too. I may be wrong and it may just sound awkward. It would be nice to get definite confirmation…
@netmouse, love your question, I am not sure about this sort of thing either.
In a somewhat related vein, last night I was trying to figure out how to say “I need someone to talk to”, which could also be “I need someone to talk with”, or maybe more grammatically, “I need someone with whom to speak”. None of those are helping me make a Welsh sentence… I tried to combine “Mae isie rhywun arna i” - which is probably wrong, anyway - with “pwy” somehow, but I just don’t know how to put it all together.
Any help appreciated 
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That’s a great one to add to the list! The obvious workaround of course is just:
Dw i eisiau/angen siarad gyda rhywun.
But I do wonder if you could make some structure like:
Dw i angen rhywun i’w siarad gyda (nhw)
Or is that trying to translate too directly from Saesneg and getting awkward?
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I’m doing the Southern lessons, I certainly understand angen when I hear it, but doesn’t yet occur to me to use it! Your answer is so obvious now that I see it! 
Diolch!
Curious if there is a way to do it with the Southern structure. A hanging gyda makes me cringe, which is ridiculous since I am the least person likely to have an instinctual sense for the language, over here in the US learning by myself!
Bit rushed right now - got to get back to the 5 Dayers! - but in this collection, the normal/‘correct’ spoken version would be ‘y brawddegau dwi ddim yn siwr amdanyn nhw’ - the ‘amdanynt’ takes you off into literary usage (would be stilted/silly in speech), the am and amdan you’ll hear often, but they make grammar purists wince…
Let me know if you can extrapolate your others from that - if not, I’ll dig out more time tomorrow
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Thank you, @aran, that certainly answers the basic question.
I’m still wondering about other similar messy constructions though.
What about pronouns like gyda or a (with hat on) that don’t conjugate?
For a start, how awkward do these phrases sound? If they’re ok, do they need a personal pronoun stuck on the end or not?
The people we met
Y pobl y cwrddon ni a (nhw)
The man I need to talk to
Y dyn dw i angen siarad a (fe)
Y dyn dw i angen siarad gyda (fe)
I’d like tips here as well, but I wonder if part of the feeling that it might occasionaly sound or feel wrong, is because it differs quite a bit from English, causing a language mash-up.
In English you’re not really supposed to put prepositions at the end at all, although we often do, but the ones we use are really simple ones, that seem to close sentences down but in Welsh there can be more choice and sometimes we don’t get an instinctive sense of closure after they’ve been said? .
Related to this and in terms of instincts letting me down - I find it odd putting a Shwd (Sut) at the end of a sentence - I’m not sure how? - dw i ddim yn siwr sut/sai’n siwr shwd?. I feel obliged to elaborate questions like that so they don’t end on the sut and I think it’s my English language control centre playing tricks.
Yes, I’m sure you can do this. I don’t think it’s stylistically dodgy? I’m sure I’ve also heard
Sut mae’n teimlo fel?
which seems wonderfully satisfyingly clunky! I don’t know if it counts as standard ‘nice’ talk or not.
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First one wrong
Second one right
Third one a mixture of colloquial and Lit Welsh - so not good at all 
Fourth one wrong - though certainly heard these days, I think almost invariably from learners rather than native speakers
There is also another alternative for these negative examples:
Y brawddegau nad ydw i’n siwr amdanyn nhw - sounds very nice and Welsh to me, that one
Second one totally wrong and horrid - frequently heard unfortunately on Pobol y Cwm and similar, however
Best way with this one, though, is
Am beth wyt ti’n chwilio?
Wrong
Wrong
Right
Right
(Gaethon - you mean of course)
Wrong
Right
Right
What fun!
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Also note that it’s good style to drop the fe or hi attached to the preposition at the end in this kind of sentence, but that you CAN’T drop the nhw:
This is the book I was talking about
Dyma’r llyfr o’n i’n sôn amdano
This is the shop I was talking about
Dyma’r siop o’n i’n sôn amdani
These are the exploding carrots I was talking about
Dyma’r moron ffrwydrol o’n i’n sôn amdanyn NHW
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And just a pointer that this stuff about prepositions in this type of sentence is covered in §483 of the Grammar, and lots of nice examples in §484
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@garethrking Just to clarify, when you say “the Grammar”, you are referring to Modern Welsh: A Comprehensive Grammar", correct? I have “Colloquial Welsh” already, but would like to get the more advanced book at some point. Especially if there are exploding carrots in it
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I don’t want to be the bearer of bad tidings, but I hear ‘amdan’ very, very often from first language speakers around here - and I’ve been watching (in faint horror) as my kids pick it up at school.
Otherwise - diolch o waelod calon am ymateb mor gymorthgar a manwl 
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That is absolutely brilliant, diolch yn fawr iawn!!
(Particularly enjoying the controversial bits!) 
Could I be even more cheeky though, while I’m thinking of it, and repeat the other question too?
I am sincerely sorry that I am too lazy to read your book at this stage of life, @garethrking. I still live in hope that I might one day. 
It’s a very good read, remembering is the problem (for me).
Cheers J.P.
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Oh well in that case I am wrong - or at least assuming something that might not be true elsewhere!
How intriguing - whereabouts are you? Are you South?
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