But the English rationalised their numbers. We don’t give our ages in scores any more, or refer to “four and twenty”, other than in the nursery rhyme. It’s said that the reason some of the Asian countries (Japan and China? Not sure) are so much better at teaching maths to kids is because the numbers are totally logical, and that’s comparing them to the normal English way of counting, not the old Welsh way.
I appreciate the history, but I’ve noticed that most Welsh adults over 50 don’t use Welsh for numbers in shops etc, whereas youngsters do because they were taught the new numbers at school.
But I’m naturally going to be in favour of the more practical system because I’m married to a mathematician who used to teach computing and maths/numeracy before he retired and who has written a book on numeracy.
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Also I note that in your examples you refer to numbers being used for ages. On every single Welsh course I’ve done (and believe me, I’ve done plenty of them!) we have never been taught anything other than the old way of counting for ages, time and dates. But if you’re in a science lesson, “un deg naw gram o gopr sylffad” is clearer than “pedwar ar bymtheg gram…” or would it actually be “pedwar gram ar bymtheg”?
Not really - we still say eleven and twelve and have not changed them to ‘onety-one’ and ‘onety-two’ like they did with Welsh.
Excellent! 
Yes, in that environment I’ve noticed that too, and in places like livestock auctions as well - but that’s not because they don’t know how to use them, it’s because English is the only guaranteed universally understood language in those situations, and they don’t want misunderstandings!
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Yes Siaron - you still have to learn the authentic numbers, so all the bureaucrats have (brilliantly as always) achieved is giving learners TWO sets of numbers to learn (and distinguish between!) instead of just the one! 
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oh if only that had happened!
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Well, you say clearer, but clearer from whose perspective? Are you claiming that, in the old pre-invented-numbers days, when a farmer up Aberygynolwyn way said pedair dafad ar bymtheg for nineteen sheep , that was in some way not clear?! It was the only way to say it! Just like quatre vingt onze for 91 in French - that’s what they use in science and maths classes, because that’s what 91 is in French!
Both pedair ar bymtheg and quatre vingt onze are less ‘clear’ to us, but only because we don’t do it that way. But they do.
This is fun.
Tank you siaron for the quick reply! That helps a lot. Mystery (sort of) solved, diolch yn fawr!
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Doesn’t Bilbo or Frodo or somebody in Lord of the Rings have an eleventy-first birthday? I think I remember that…
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As you’ve explained your dislike for the changes I can totally understand your feelings. As a reception class teacher though I have always wished that the English number system was as clear as the Welsh (new decimal system) - it would make place value so easy to teach!
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Yes!! It‘s bilbo‘s 111th birthday: „I am eleventy-one today“. Can‘t be of much help with Welsh but I do know my Tolkien hahaha
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I do certainly see this argument
There IS also of course the long-term argument that having to deal with a more complex number system in the early years actually makes for better numeracy in adulthood, because you’ve had to think harder.
This is one of the reasons often stated, incidentally, for Japan’s very high rate of literacy - one of the highest in the world, and yet with a writing system generally regarded as the most complex and laborious to master (a mixture of Chinese characters and two different syllabary sets, with each Chinese character furthermore having multiple sounds/readings).
Just a thought.
Wouldn’t that be something like “oneteen” and “twoteen”?
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Well, if you’re going to get picky about this, Sionned… 
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I think 141 should be thirteenty-onety-one from now on.
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Of course you know that we keep ‘eleven’ and ‘twelve’ because that’s how we count the hours…
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Not quite true. I use “five and twenty to” and “five and twenty past” when telling the time. And, no, I’m not old enough to draw my pension. Not even close.
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This is obviously a dialect thing because I am well past pension age and I would never tell the time that way.
I’d either say “twenty five past five” or “five twenty five”.
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I would say five and twenty occasionally - a throw back from growing up in South Wales as although we did not speak Welsh there was a lot of Welsh syntax. Think it would be a shame to lose that really.
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