Tiny questions with quick answers - continuing thread

Welsh General / Questions
#6405

I was half way through writing something about cael but it looked too long-winded.

Normally @stephenbranley it’s just a big orange speech bubble with Cymraeg written on it

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#6406

So he did, so :grinning:

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#6407

Thanks Sharon, that makes sense. I get confused looking at a word like “spoken” into thinking it’s past tense, but of course it can also be present (“is spoken”).

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#6408

Don’t forget the vowel shift: Siaredir Cymraeg Yma. :wink:

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#6409

too late - I totally did! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

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#6410

I didn’t forget it … I didn’t know about it. :wink:

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#6411

Even though Welsh is so incredibly easier than English for spelling there’s one thing that I still find a bit confusing:
when is the sound “i” supposed to be written i, u, y or e! :thinking:

I guess sometimes I’m just not able to hear a slight difference there may be between them in pronunciation - yet.

And it’s already better than when I started because, for example, I’ve figured out that verbs seem to generally end with u. Am I right?

I was wondering if there are any rules, hints, patterns that might help. And by the way…why are there so many ways to write this one sound in particular?

#6412

I struggled with this for a good while. Not ridculous.

#6413

Theres a podcast on the net that gives the sounds, its by Gwynyth Angharad. Pronouncing vowel sounds. You can search on her name.

However- they each have two sounds, but you are right, i and y have one of their sounds that is the same. Like ee in English.
Also one of the sounds of U ( the one in Cymru) is that same sound in S. Wales, but more like Ur in N Wales. You just get to know the spellings. You cant really use too much theory on them. They just look right.

A bit like how we learn to speak with SSiW. I noticed a topic on here that was quite complex in terms of grammar theory, and yet strangely, when the definitive answer was given, I thought: Yes, thats right, because it sounds right. Again, the way a first langauge learner picks up language patterns.

Edited. I mixed up Y and U :frowning:

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#6414

…

Cwestiwn sydyn/Quick question

Difference between “onid” (unless") and Oni bai (unless) … ? Onid a written Welsh thing? Whats the nuance?

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#6415

This is what I found. Hopefully helpful.
Unless
Onid/Oni can also mean If not (for).
Oni bai can also mean Were it not for.
They seem pretty close.
Also, for some uses, they can mean Except. Close to Heblaw.

Edited -
Also, seem to mean Without fault/error/exception.
You could be correct about written form.
GPC.

#6416

Yes, I think you’re pretty much right here for many :slight_smile: - gwerthu, adeiladu, prynu, gwenu, datblygu - and if you drop the u, or drop the u and add -iad, you get a noun.

Of course, lots of verbs don’t end in a u, but I terms of the sounds you were asking about, u is the ending

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#6417

I’ve had a look at the video you mentioned, John, but that makes pronunciation seem really complicated…long vowels, short vowels…wha’? :dizzy_face:
I don’t want to confuse myself on the one thing I’ve always enjoyed and never worried about! :rofl:

In fact the reason I was asking (apart from a curiosity about history of the language) is that I whenever I try to write, I usually don’t know (can’t remember) if it’s i, u, y or e.
And I’ve realized it’s the main reason why it takes me ages to write even very short sentences that I would have no problems to say in a second.

So I was hoping to find a few hints and tricks! :wink:

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#6418

A hundred lines, Siaron. On my desk by tomorrow morning. :confused:

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#6419

Well now you do, Sir Gruntius - so no more excuses… :wink:

If the syllable before the -ir has A for its vowel, you change it to E.

(talu) - Telir eich cyflog yn fisol- Your salary will be paid monthly

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#6420

This thread is a constant reminder that the more I learn, the more I realise I don’t know.

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#6421

…and is Sir Gruntius the Welsh for Gruntiushire? :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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#6422

Ah, OK. Well there ate some tricks Uh sound within a word, thats probably Y or W. Like ysbyty.
Ur or ee at the end, as in Cymru or Ysbyty (again) thats U or Y.

Any vowel with a to bach (hat) thats the longer open sound, â, ô, W^

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#6423

Not sure about 'e" but for the others, you’ve really got 2 or 3 sounds that have “fallen together”. In Middle Welsh you’ve got a sound like a French u (or German ü). Some of these are only ü at the end of the word, and change to schwa (uh) when they’re earlier in the word; some of them are always ü; and then there’s an ‘i’ as well. In Modern Welsh, though, the ü has become ‘unrounded’ to a sound that is nearly (in the North) or exactly (in the South) like the old ‘i’.

So:
Sound 1, formerly ü/uh - cryf, cryfach
Sound 2, formerly ü - hun, hunain
Sound 3, always i - tri, trideg

A similar thing happened with Old English y (= ü) - Latin cucina gave Old English cycen (pronounced kütschen, if I use German spelling), Modern ‘kitchen’ with the ü unrounded to ‘i’.

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#6424

Looking in GM (Y Geiriadur Mawr) I get these results:

  1. oni : onid, (a word in negative questions) - not - for example - Onid e? - Is it not?
  2. oni : onid : onis, (conjunction) - os na; hyd, nes. - unless; until.

Then looking up bai separately I get this:
bai, (masculine noun), plural: beiau.

  1. diffyg, ffaeledd, nam - fault.
  2. drygioni, trosedd - vice.
  3. cyfrifoldeb. - blame
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