In all sincerity, I’m glad you’re on SSiW. I’ve learned a lot from your explanations. I had the dictionary before I knew who you were. Seeing you here only adds credence that learning Welsh, or any other language, from SSiW is the place to learn.
3 Likes
You’re very gracious.
I enjoy being here on SWiW as much as you - it’s a lovely place with lovely people! 
7 Likes
challenge 2 starts tomorrow…
2 Likes
Hey, Siaron, you need to stop with the absolute statements! 
2 Likes
Two quick questions on mutations, which both boil down to: is it (a) wrong (typo or language mistake); (b) dialect (perfectly natural Welsh but not what we’ve learnt); or © standard Welsh (but there’s some rule I haven’t learnt/understood/assimilated)?
-
In Chwalfa, which I’ve just started to read (slowly): “Ia, dyna ydw i’n ddeud, beth bynnag…” Why ddeud and not deud?
-
In the song Cyfarfod O’r Blaen by Y Cledrau I hear the chorus as “Sut dw i’n mod i gofio fo, dw i erioed wedi cyfarfod o’r blaen” – I’m puzzled by mod, which looks like it’s going with a fy that isn’t there (and would sound out of place if it were there). Am I mishearing it? Or is it just a thing, that it sort of sounds more 1st person to say mod than bod? (And ‘should’ – for certain values of ‘should’ – it be wedi’w gyfarfod or something, or is it just fine as it is?)
Thanks!
1 Like
Because the object of the verb deud precedes it - THAT is what I am saying = I am saying THAT. This causes mutation because there’s really a missing ei there - just like Beth wyt ti’n feddwl - What do you think?, Beth maen nhw’n wneud - What are they doing?
You must be hearing fod, I think - this would then mean How am I supposed to remember him, with i fod i + VN being the standard way of saying supposed to.
3 Likes
OK – I sort of get that. I think it’ll take some adjusting to before it’s any part of my active usage, but I can see the pattern.
That’s kind of what I was expecting to hear – I’ve actually been known to use that construction myself, sometimes (possibly) even in the right context. But it’s not what I actually think I’m hearing… Never mind: I like the song, so no doubt I’ll keep listening! At least my expectations are in line with yours on this one.
2 Likes
Emma and I heard it as “sut dwi fod i gogio bod ni erioed wedi cyfarfod o’r blaen” (how I pretend we’ve never met before).
1 Like
Ooh, thanks!
So:
(a) my ‘mod’ was just mis-heard;
(b) I’ve always heard cofio, which I’m familiar with, instead of cogio which I wasn’t, although when I went to post this last night I did play it through better speakers and wasn’t sure;
(c) the band retweeted the lyric right after retweeting something from my Twitter ffugenw about my daughter saying they weren’t bad, so maybe I should just follow them on Twitter;
(d) coming back to mutations, I’d have expected cogio (ein) bod ni, but I guess people do say fod not just with fo…
(e) What’s the Welsh for Mondegreen?
ETA: I listened again and heard ‘bod’, so hoped I wasn’t coming across as nit-picky – and then looked back here and saw that you’d said that was how you and Emma heard it, rather than fod – so it looks like I’ve finally caught up with you
Does camglywed sound plausible?
Thanks @AnthonyCusack, @siaronjames and @delawarejones! Those three answers combined were exactly what I was after
and this summed it up perfectly:
Thanks all
4 Likes
Yeah, new on me also. So it can mean practice or play a trick or fake/cheat? Borrowed from English Cog. Meaning the same or to throw dice etc. TBH, the English is a new one (or old one?) On me also.
1 Like
I’m sure there’s not a really clear line…but what is generally considered South and North for accent?
We have a board at work that I’ve annexed to write Welsh words and phrases on. Something will come up in regular conversation and if I know the words, I write it in Welsh on the board. It’s just a bit of fun practice (I’m the only Welsh speaker in the office). The latest one was when a colleague said “My brain has been fried” and I wrote “Mae ymennydd Karen wedi’i ffrio” which, now I look at it, should probably be “Mae ymennydd Karen wedi bod yn ffrio”.
Is either correct in meaning?
First one looks OK (I think?) Either that or Mae ymennydd Karen wedi cael ei ffrio?
I think the second is closer to Karen’s brain has been frying
I may be completely wrong though, and happy to be corrected 
1 Like
Ahhhh, yes, I think you’re right! So it looks like my first instinct is more likely correct. That’s both reassuring and annoying that I should doubt myself.
I believe “wedi’i” implies “wedi cael ei”.
1 Like
That’s what I would have gone for - you could be more precise and say ‘wedi cael ei ffrio’, but that’s really about wanting to try and echo the English as closely as possible - wedi’i ffrio is much faster/more common…
@gisella - nope, no real clear line I’m afraid - you can pick up on particular words - ‘sai’n gallu’ would always sound southern, for example, but as a general thing? It varies too much from village to village…
2 Likes
Do you mean some sort of idealised geographical border? If so it’s probably just N of Aberystwyth, but in reality, starts to change a few miles from the South coast.
If you mean what do the different accents sound like (in pronunciation and tone, lilt, etc), that’s a tricky one to explain. I only know by the general sound structure. You could listen to a part of a challenge in N and then S to get an idea. Alternatively, two different presenters on Radio Cymru. Possibly a good contrast might be Sian Cothi for South and John Hardy for North.
I hope that this helps.
4 Likes
Thanks, yes, I meant some kind of invisible border…just to have a vague idea.
As for the differences…I tried to listen a bit of a challenge in Northern version. And from time to time someone here mentions one presenter or another…as having a strong Northern or Southern accent, and sometimes I googled the names of someone I heard on the radio or TV clips, to see where they’re from.
In challenges, the thing I noticed easily is that they use different words to mean the same thing.
But more in general, like the radio…I can’t really understand the differences so clearly, because it’s all just a big mess of unintelligible sounds, for now! 
I had the impression that Southern accent tends to be softer, clearer (with wider vowels and distinct syllables), have fuller/lower and less nasal tones and in general more musical…but I’m not not too sure it’s always like that!
I’ll try to listen to Sian Cothi and John Hardy, then!
2 Likes