@wondersheep: I haven’t actually done any of the new lessons, although I’m also contemplating going gog for them, but I did help put a few of them together and I found the north pace both comforting and frustrating. I think as long as you don’t worry about producing “southern” words instead of the “northern” ones you’ll be ok. I’ll be very interested to hear how it goes for you, if you give Aran mode a go.
It’s always a useful thing to run through the ‘other’ version, since it gives you more exposure to variations in the language - the only important caveat is that you shouldn’t worry about saying ‘moyn’ where we’re saying ‘isio’ and so on, because the real value of it is that you broaden your understanding rather than change your own production.
And actually, come to think of it, on that particular front we probably have an edge case, if you’ve been doing C1 and C2 southern and then switch to C1 (new) northern - because there’ll be stuff in there that you haven’t done yet, so you’ll get used to doing it northern rather than southern - so actually, I’ve changed my mind, and I think you’d probably be best off waiting for the southern versions of the new material, which are rattling along at the moment…
Once you’ve done them, then come visit by all means!
Aran: the only important caveat is that you shouldn’t worry about saying ‘moyn’ where we’re saying ‘isio’ and so on
A really nice ‘side effect’ of doing both: I’ve now got a nice South/North hybrid speaking style. I remember laughing at a comment in the parti penblwydd where someone (I forget who!) mentioned that we’ll have lots of little Arans and Iestyns running around. Doing a few lessons from the ‘other’ course will not allow you to understand the other style more quickly, but it’ll also naturally provide you with your own unique style as you pick and choose which parts you like from both.
I’ve noticed in the new South version (to be published shortly), the Sa /so way of negating a sentence used in the old South version has been replaced by Dw i ddim
eg: “Dw i ddim yn moyn rhywbeth”
instead of “Sai’n moyn rhywbeth”
Is this a policy decision?
The old course one used this throughout - sa/so was only introduced in course 2 lesson 0, IIRC.
I’ve now got a nice South/North hybrid speaking style
Uh-oh. Sounds as though you’re going to have to move to Aberystwyth…
So/sa - to be honest, I thought we were going with that from the start this time round, so I presume that Iestyn decided that ‘dwi ddim’ was so common as to be pretty much required - in which case, we’ll have a chat sometime about the best way to introduce so/sa…
Bonus lesson, similar to how it was handled in course 2?
A really nice ‘side effect’ of doing both: I’ve now got a nice South/North hybrid speaking style.
Sounds interesting! Is it just the vocab that you’ve combined, or have you got a hybrid accent going on too?
Bonus lesson, similar to how it was handled in course 2?
I think we can do it better this time around…
Huw Jones - I’ve noticed in the new South version (to be published shortly), the Sa /so way of negating a sentence used in the old South version has been replaced by Dw i ddim
Sa/So wasn’t introduced until the start of Course 2 Southern in the original structure. Course 1 stuck with ‘Dw i ddim,’ which makes sense to me because it’s so foundational. I would hope that the new structure would introduce Sa/So eventually just like the old one did.
Fascinating stuff! I’m learning South, but my wife is a Gog, as are a lot of our friends & family, so actually going back to do the new C1 North might be a really good idea for me, as I already incorporate some northern things - you don’t get away with saying ‘disgled’ in this household, for example! Excellent idea…
I agree with what Diane says above, btw, about the different negative forms. I think it helps to get the ‘dw i ddim’ pattern ingrained because then it’s much easier when you’re doing other tenses, which don’t, I think, have a sa/so equivalent (do they?).
On a related point - I was a bit surprised to hear “dweud” in the new Course 1. I’ve got rather used to saying “gweud” with the old course. Will that be changing at some stage too?
Isn’t that a north/south thing too, Dee? Certainly my missus & family all say ‘dweud’, but the southern-based telly I’ve watched (e.g. Teulu, Gwaith Catref) use ‘gwaed’.
Thanks to Aran & Diane for responding to my So/Sa query.
I was feeling a bit so-so about using dw i ddim
Sara: but the southern-based telly I’ve watched (e.g. Teulu, Gwaith Catref) use ‘gwaed’.
In the South we frequently drink it
gwaed = blood (as in “T(D)ros ryddid collasant eu gwaed”)
were you hearing gweud?
“were you hearing gweud? :-)”
Um … yes … I believe I was. (Oops - haven’t studied any written Welsh properly yet, so my spelling’s a bit all over the shop.)
I think the ‘gwaed’ was in Y Gwyll, wasn’t it?
Spelling doesn’t normally matter a jot, Sara. I only mentioned it this time because, if you said or wrote “gwaed” instead of “gweud” you’d get some blank faces.
Pronunciation: I can only talk confidently about Southern Ceredigion or Northern Carmarthenshire where “gwaed” rhymes with “slide” and “gweud” rhymes (pretty closely) with “delayed”. I think this applies fairly widely in the South but specifically not in the North where - well I’ll leave it to a Gog to advise on the pronunciation of “dweud” (Catrin’s is the definitive version but Aran gets quite close, I believe ).
There was indeed quite a bit of “gwaed” spilt in Y Gwyll.
Huw
Ah, well the Gogs (some of them at least) have got that funny ‘u’ sound that I can’t do for love nor money (crops up in ‘teulu’, say). When the missus demonstrates to me how to say it, she sort of rolls her tongue into a tube and I just can’t do it!
I don’t think I’d say ‘gwaed’ for ‘gweud’ (although I often say gofyn when I mean gorfod, and other such idiocies … so I wouldn’t put it past me!)
Dee: On a related point - I was a bit surprised to hear “dweud” in the new Course 1. I’ve got rather used to saying “gweud” with the old course.
It is dweud in the old Southern Course 1. Does that change in the later courses?
It is dweud in the old Southern Course 1. Does that change in the later courses?
Yes, in Course 2 we start saying ‘gweud’ instead of ‘dweud’ (which mutates to ‘weud’ instead of ‘ddweud’) because ‘gweud’ is a very common way of saying it in the South.