I’m not sure we are - I think a lot of what we’re talking about is your attitude to yourself, and how you feel about things, and how you judge them…
I think it’s interesting - and perhaps useful for you to realise - that you have a high level of confidence with your English (which is great to see), to the extent that you don’t mind making a lot of mistakes. But when you make a lot of mistakes in Welsh, you feel as though something is wrong - but it’s actually just the same process of getting more and more exposure to a language until you use it more and more naturally…
Well, I’m sorry to say this, but I’ve just finished the last of Vocabs of Course 1 only to establish that I’m (accordingo to instructions in it) not even a bit ready to really go in a wild and speak.
And then this “… if you’re able to get 80 % of your Welsh before Cat, then you’re doing fenomenally good …” at the end of the lesson reminds me I should really do everything more then fenomenally good if I’m about to really get 80 % of Welsh out before Cat because there are almost no gaps inbetween in this last lesson. Is it meant to be so to be more of a challenge or is it kind of “hickup” as Aran often says to such unwanted “mistakes”??? Whatever I sincerely hope, if there would be any vocabs in new Levels, they would provide a bit more gap to put an answer in. It’s fine if you sit behind a computer or whatever only doing the lesson but if you tend to do things on more “active” basis like doing something else while doing the lesson, there’s no way to push pause button so you can put your answer in.
For me switching inbetween tenses, genders and what’s more to it is big challenge enough even after such a long time of learning and so much material gone through.
And then all this sometimes makes me wonder: OK I can encourage people also with having Skype conversations with them but … am I really the speaking parthner those, maybe not so advanced learners need? Can they really learn at least something from me?
That sounds like a technical problem, Tatjana - our technical problem! So please don’t blame yourself for it…
No, there won’t be vocab sessions for the Levels - they’re antiquated, and we don’t need them any more…
Yes - they can learn a HUGE amount from being in a Welsh conversation - in the same way that you can improve your tennis without playing Roger Federer…
Tatjana, you’re being naughty now… as one of those less advanced learners, of course I benefit from talking to you! I don’t expect you to teach me - we can leave that to Aran and Catrin - but I’m gaining masses of confidence from being able to chat freely in Welsh. I have a Welsh neighbour, and I try so hard to talk to him. But he listens in appalled silence, and then answers in words I don’t understand. Whereas you and I chat away merrily, and we make ourselves understood. So don’t give up, and don’t you dare give up on me!
You would be like Roger Federer to me because I can’t play tennis at all (but I know why you’ve mentioned tennis … “Monte Carlo effect” I presume. ) I probably wouldn’t even see where the ball is flying.
Thank you … I was not sure though.
I’m always a bit naughty …
Then my mission is fulfilled …
Agreed!
Ehhh … did someone mention giving up? No, no, you won’t get rid off me so easily. - haha!
No way I’d do that. Didn’t we say the next step in the future is to meet us being in Wales or Slovenia and siarad Cymraeg all the way?
Now … @aran told/advised me to go through Challenges/Lessons 25 every month or so and I have to be honest that I didn’t quite do that that often and to be honest I’m not capable of going through more then 1 Lesson/Challenge a day being due to lack of time and proper place in order to do so or beig tired but today I just took that time from somewhere and did Challenge 25 of Level 1 and yesterday I’ve gone through the Lesson 25 of Course 2 but among all challenges I still have with these lessons there’s one which really is going to my nerves already and I think I have a sirious problem here.
Wnes i, wnest ti, wnaeth fo and what’s more to it are so deep rooted in me that I don’t even hear other ways of telling the past when English is spoken. For example: in the lessons “you have”, “I have”, “I was” etc is used much more then “I did” etc at later stages but my brains just don’t want to hear these structures even in English. Even if the tutor says for example “I have walked to the pub”, I’d say “Wnes i cerdded i’r dafarn” instead of Dw i wedi" … But it doesn’t happen only in lessons. I’m using wnes i a lot in conversations not to mention that short forms don’t exist for me at all. When I tak I’m usually trying to remember other structures which would be quite more suitable for certain things I want to say but I just can’t remember them. Wnes i is there all the time and doesn’t want to go anywhere else. I actually found out that if I’d do Welsh course from the scratch (what means I wouldn’t have the slidest idea about Cymraeg at all), Levels would really be more suitable for that purpose because in very early stages there are also other forms of past presented too. In old course we know only wedi and wnes i through the whole 1st and quite some of the 2nd course before we come to on i’n and similar things.
I know, I just have to try and not use wnes i in every singhe case but really “listen” to what the question or similar is, but in conversations you can’t let others wait until too long just to remember what form it’d actually be more apropriate to use. And, yes many times my ears just don’t hear that “have been” “have gone” or “was trying” … and simiar stuff.
All in all I feel my Welsh is simply too simple rather not to mention all those forgotten "yn"s, "at"s (which I actually can’t quite establish where to put them at all (except in the case with “throwing the ball at the wall …”) "i’r"s, "ar"s and what’s more to such tinny bits which make sentences sensible … My inventions are excluded here so that I’d not add too much to the mix of misery …
Apart from speaking in the “skype wilderness” I am not sure what to do - going trough lessons until I die on past tenses or something much less frightening?
You have to understand that in Slovene language here’s only one past tense we are actually using and sometimes for me is hard to determine which to use where even in English and go just with what’s heard better and more natural … so this puts even bigger challenge to me.
Tatjana, I always enjoy reading about your progress, because it helps me to realize that I am not the only one struggling with these issues! I think this is perhaps a common issue for those of us who went through the courses before doing the levels. I would consider giving you two things to think about: 1) as @Aran always says, don’t worry about it. Eventually all these words and forms will work their way into your memory and you will find yourself using them without thinking about it. 2) Try to not use wnes i, and make yourself use on i’n, wedi, or the short forms (I know, easier said than done!). Since I STILL haven’t held a conversation with anyone else yn Gymraeg, I practice talking to myself - or more often the dog (pan dan i’n mynd am dro), so I find it easier to take my time in figuring out what to say. I don’t know if that’s helpful or not, but I just wanted to say that you’re not alone!
Yes, I’m trying to use other forms then wnes i but my problem is that I many times completely forget about them - except wedi - and I’m only reminded when doing lessons that they’re here somewhere, ready to be used. I many times catch myself saying in my mind when hearing those other structures: “Oh, yes, of course, they exist too!” and they appear totally new to me like I’m hearing them for the first time. And the shortenings, despite they’re really well described during the lessons, I just don’t quite understand and they appear so similar to each other that they confuse me.
I know someone from Bulgaria on my course, and he’s always moaning about how many tenses English has - and Welsh has some that English doesn’t too! Da iawn though, you’re making far better progress through this than I am!
In terms of short endings; whilst it might not help recognising them when said; producing them is as straightforward as taking the stem of the word (just go with feel, you’ll figure that out with practice, doesn’t really matter if it’s slightly wrong afterall! Typically the last syllable), and add on the appropriate ending - ais i; aist ti; och chi; odd hi/e/name; on nhw/ni. Maybe spending a bit of time drilling that could help (sorry if that diverges from the SSiW way!).
Something that really helped me with the irregular short verbs too - they all follow mynd, except with an extra letter at the start: c/g for cael, d for dod and gwn/wn for gwneud. Once you’re happy using one, you’ll be happy with all of them!
Reading your updates now compared to the start of the thread is incredible though! Keep it up!
Well, maybe putting some more extra effort into past tenses and shortenings would do. With mutations usually there’s no problem except … jah, except when it comes to possessives. Then my brains freeze a bit but i try to “cover” those things with as quickly the pattern said as possible in hope no one would really notice what I’ve actually blurted out.
Ummm … well, I went through the Challenge 15 of Level 2 today (once again) and encountered that “that’s” is “dyna” but where then that “tawd” (or whatever it is spelled) comes from for example in a sentence “Ewt ti’n swr tawd dyna i’r peth gore eu neud?” I don’t remember that “tawd” was presented somewhere. Wlouldn’t be “Ewt ti’n swr dyna i’r peth gore eu neud?” just enough? I really need some explanation here (despite I’ve said I will never discuss grammar again (and I won’t too much though, just to know where this comes from not more)).
And more … from how many words “proud of yourself” phrase consists … It’s heard like a bunch of words I really can’t understand/hear how to say. It was presented somewhere but I can’t remember where but I’ll go to @faithless78’s lesson guides later on to determine but if someone has a spare minute to write thingy here I won’t protest either.
Diolch.
Oh, and about the “wnes i” … going through the Challenge 15 I’m even more confused about this all “past tense” thingy … Sometimes I feel I’ll never cope with that one …
“Taw” is another word for “that”, and in this sentence (“Wyt ti’n siwr taw dyna’r peth gorau i’w wneud?”) it literally says “Are you sure that that is the best thing to do?”, so not really displaced at all.
As for its introduction into the course, that would’ve been in course 2 of the old course - which you may not know about if you haven’t done the old course! To my recollection, “taw” hasn’t formally been introduced in this course yet, and I must admit I missed this when writing up the course notes as well! I will make edits!!
“Proud of yourself” is “balch ohonot ti dy hunan”, literally “proud of you yourself”. This phrase was introduced in challenge 14, and appears in the course notes.
“Wnes i…” is the past tense for “to do”, so you would use this if you did something in the past, but might not be doing it anymore, as an example.
“O’n i…” however, means you was doing something, say, more recently, as another example.
Or “Wedi gwneud”, meaning have done something, and finished doing it now, or “wedi cwpla”.
I did Course 2 but I simply can’t remember “Taw” in any context …
Too many words said too quickly to remember them what even to say them … Obviously I’ll have to put a bit extra effort into “being proud of myself”.
It makes sense of course but I just don’t have the time to think what was done in particular time and for how long … Slovene having only one past tense we’re using on a daily basis it’s hard for me to go with so many differences but obviously I’ll just have to.
I’m not sure. I just don’t remember it but can go to Challenge 14 and take a closer “look” once again. You know that I forget 1001 things so it could very well be it lsipped my mind and it is quite a while I’ve made Challenge 14 actually (might be 3, 4 or even more months back). .
As I write this I’m going through Lesson 25 of Course 3 but it is like totally new planet to me despite I went through it several times in the past year. What should I repeat to return back at least one thing requested to be said in this last lesson. I am only listening now since I don’t have the slidest idea whad I shoul say at all’ or is the only solution to go through everything again? Listening to the sentences I really don’t remember anything at all, like I would never learn this at all.
Oh dear, that’s just how it seems to me, wading though the quicksand for the first time, going slower and slower and sinking fast… never mind, Level 3 will be with us soon, and then we could just quietly delete Course 3 from our computers and memories… after all, we can communicate fine without it!
If Course 2 would still exist after Level 3 is presented it should very easily be splited into two more Courses going slowly through all these shortenings and too many words for one single thing you want to say (like being proud of yourself for example).
It’s similar to my thoughts about Slovene language the other day. If we’d want to go totally colloquial (like with Cymreag) We’d need 2 courses of 3 levels - first 3 to get basis of more correct Slovene and 2nd 3 for going totally colloquial … We omit many things out of sentences too or say them totally differently from “correct” language … and it is not dialect yet…
Yes, but as you say, we can communicate perfectly well with what we already know despite I think I still use too simple language. Sometimes I feel like 5 years old child who is not capable of cope with all aspect of the language yet just that child’s brains are not in such mess as there are mine.
Mai/taw has a number of repetitions, but it isn’t presented separately - so don’t worry about feeling uncertain about it…
As for the past tense, you only need to keep two things in mind:
1 - you’ll communicate fine if you only ever use the ‘wnes i’ approach.
2 - if you keep repeating Challenge 25, you’ll keep getting more variety - the best thing to do might be to repeat Challenge 25 for Level 2 one month, the next month do 25 for Level 1, the next month do 25 for Course 3 - that would be plenty.
One last suggestion - why not identify a pattern you wish you used more often (like ‘O’n i’n mynd’) and then make up five sentences with that pattern every morning for a week - and then move on to another pattern you’d like to strengthen? You can make up 5 sentences in your head on the way to work…
) I probably wouldn’t even see where the ball is flying. 