Sut, beth and pam in sentences with ti'n

First of all thanks to everyone involved in SSIW for making it possible for me to learn Welsh, I’ve managed to plug my way through to the end of lesson 14 of course 1 and it’s been a great experience. However once small thing I’ve wondered about is the nature in which the above 3 are pronounced when they precede ti’n (I’m studying the southern course if that helps). if “what I want to do” comes up as part of sentence it’s pronounced “beth dwi’n moyn ei wneud e”, but if “what you want to do” comes up it seems to be pronounced “beth i ti’n moyn ei wneud e”. Apologies if it’s just that my ears don’t work, or if the reason behind this has already been covered but I’ve forgotten it!

As an aside I was also wondering about the regular group meet ups, I’m a student at Cardiff university so while I can’t make meetings now I might be able to once I’ve moved in in September, maybe at Y Mochyn Du. Is there a minimum standard for these meetups as there is fot bootcamp out of interest?

Hi Joel,
“beth i ti’n moyn ei wneud e” - formally, that should be “beth wyt ti’n moyn ei wneud e”, but informally, “wyt” is often ommitted. So the “i” you mention is either “wyt” pronounced quickly, or your ears misled your brain, or vice versa :slight_smile:
I’ve never been to Cardiff, but I would extremely surprised if you weren’t warmly welcomed at the meetings.

I think you might be hearing ‘the squeak’ that I read about on the old forum. I can’t remember the exact explanation for it though so hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will come on and explain it :slight_smile:

@Sarah The ‘squeak’ appears at the beginning of ‘we are’ ('y ni’n…), ‘they are’ ('y nhw’n…) and ‘you are (plural)’ ('y chi’n…) - including when asking a question (‘are we…?’ etc). I believe it also appears in ‘you are (singular)’ ('y ti’n) too, but often gets omitted in normal speech, although when asking a question in “ti”, this will always start “wyt ti’n…?”.

Diolch Gavin!
Im easily confused when it comes to Welsh (doesnt take alot to confuse me in English mind :-D), im wondering now, in Joel’s sentence “what you want to do” is it the squeak or a quick wyt that can be heard? I assumed it was the squeak as the sentence isn’t a question?

I don’t think I use the “squeak” myself, but I always assumed that it was a quick/contracted wyt. In any case, wherever it came from originally, it doesn’t matter - you’ll be fine if you say beth i ti’n moyn, or beth wyt ti’n moyn, or even just beth ti’n moyn. All of the above (and more besides) will be heard in the wild, so just go with whatever comes to you first :slight_smile:

Kinetic, no, you don’t ‘squeak’ – you’re too Northern. :slight_smile:

I’m not sure the description ‘squeak’ is particularly helpful, TBH. To me it’s more of a very brief glottal stop. And as far as I can tell, sometimes I do it and sometimes I don’t.

Depends which side of Llangurig I’m on*.

*Not really.

Thanks for the help everyone :slight_smile:

I think I notice the sound during sentences such as “he knows what I want” or “he knows what you want”, so “maf’en gwybod beth dwi’n moyn” or “maf’en gwybod beth i ti’n moyn” as opposed to in questions, I hope I’m not going deaf!


You’re not going deaf. Sometimes it’s there, sometimes not. It’s not there with i (I) because ‘dw’ is the verb. ‘Wyt’ is the verb with ti (you) and is often eliminated or shortened to the sound you’re hearing.

Diolch yn fawr Craig :slight_smile: