Ah, I just looked at the web version—it seems much better than the App I had tried. Maybe that is what I had been missing.
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Thank you so much for you reply Ani. In all honesty I wasn’t expecting it. For me, and speaking to others, the confidence to go out and speak to real people is where SSi excels over the others so it’s made me realise that we’re all different and our brains need a different method sometimes.
I think the point is that it teaches you how to say “I come from (somewhere) and I’ve been learning for about (period of time).” leaving you to look up the rest. (Even though I’ve seen that really we should be saying “dwi’n dysgu ers (period of time)” or something like that.) So yes, the extra nouns and verbs will need to come from elsewhere but the structures go in and stick. Thank you so much for this though, brilliant.
Thank you for all the replies, it’s been a good read.
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This is something I’ve heard from a few people on Facebook, that SSiW only teaches you to repeat phrases. I think, as @gruntius has said, that’s not the full picture and I think, personally, that’s a bit disingenuous to SSiW. If you know how to say “dw i’n dod o…” You can add anything you like after.
I’ve also read from others that it doesn’t teach you the grammar. Well it does. If you’ve learnt “bod + yn + berf” you’ve learnt the grammar. SSiW just requires learners to experiment and that is the key to learning. Passively being taught every word we need to know doesn’t happen, ever, even in our first language.
Best form of learning vocab for me, that sticks, has been reading. You start to pick out the key words you don’t understand as you lose track of what is going on. Look that word up and bingo the door to the next bit is open. That gives me context and texture so helps me remember. As with everything, memory is only as good as it’s used. So then the goal is to slip these new phrases or words into usage.
That’s my personal take on things 
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This thread is really interesting!
Especially reading the different approaches and feelings about each method, how something works great for one and not for another.
I wonder if our first experiences of learning a language - not native language, that’s quite hard to remember - has influenced our preferences and reactions to learning now?
For example I did study English at school, but I kinda hated sitting in the classroom and listening to boring teachers, and of course homework and tests. 
In fact, I learnt most of the things I know of English and French in the wild. And SSiW is a bit more similar to that experience than a course - isn’t it?
That’s fun for me - even though of course it also makes me anxious.
But I know that for many people, that’s only really stressful instead and not enjoyable at all.
Once again, we’re all different, and it’s all fine (although since we’re on SSiW forum the majority here tends to like this approach better - otherwise we’d all be on Duolingo Forum instead!)
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the confidence to go out and speak to real people is where SSi excels over the others
I think it is the combination of both. Doing Duoling only, I wouldn’t be able to speak at all. I get the structures from SSiW and then add the vocabulary and some other common phrases from Duo.
@AnthonyCusack has a point, SSiW requires us to go out and experiment. And learn the gaps from other Welsh users. So maybe after learning fy chwaer, a learner would use fy gŵr without knowing that it should mutate. Later there is fy mrawd and dy frawd, so a learner learns that it mutates but still doesn’t know enough to see the pattern. But I am sure that it comes later, without studying the grammar of personal pronouns. Kids also learn by experimenting and doing a lot of mistakes.
I think I am too afraid to do it like this.
In any case, I think we need to get some vocabulary elsewhere quite early - numbers, other family members, other countries, food, how to order in a pub, days in the week etc.
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I suspect that I am not the only one here who has cause to be grateful to Duolingo. It was a link on a Duolingo forum that led me to SSiW. That must be about two years ago. I doubt if I would have pressed on for two years with Duolingo alone, because I never really intended to learn Welsh - just to have a little taste. As well as the challenges, which were tough but strangely compelling, SSiW has given me the confidence to go out and try to talk to people, both locally and on brief visits to Wales. I do revisit Duolingo from time to time as it helps me revise vocabulary, reading and spelling. SSiW also gives me a feeling of community and helping each other. This is very different from Duolingo’s leagues where people try to outdo people that they know nothing about. It’s quite fun “following” a group of other SSiW people on Duolingo though.
Sue
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As I’ve said in another thread, vocab lessons were (more or less) speciffically meant for those who already finished at least Course 1 (for the vocabs of the Course 1) and Course 2 (for the vocabs of Course 2) and were/are about to attend the Bootcamp. Going through those two sets of vocabs you could survive the bootcamp a bit easier than not doing them. They consist of the every day things like counting, days of the week, months and many more super useful things. If you do these lessons just for the sake of doing them, there really are a bit too much words and structures concentrated in the set, but (at least for me) with one or two times repetition they work and stick too.
Sorry to ask but does DuoLingo do it? I’m not sure any praticular method is needed to be confident to speak in the wild. The deceision is always on us alone no matter what course do you work through. For example: I didn’t know more than approx 10 words of Spanish when I went to Spain back in 1994 and the course I went through was not good enough for me to really lwarn anything more than that (it wasn’t even a shadow of what SSiSpanish has to offer) but I was just eager enough to try my poor 10 words on the poor people in various services (shops, restaurants etc). The deceision of going in the wild with my (really poor) knowledge of Spanish was only mine no matter what course I did that time.
As many say … from this you can build further and I believe this is super fine. You need to do a bit of work on your own and not just learn things presented to you. Neither SSiW, nor DouLingo or Memrise will ever teach me I’m comming from Slovenia! I just had to do that part on my own because many of those who are making those courses (SSiW crew left out for that matter though) haven’t even the slidest clue where Slovenia is and many don’t even know it exists. So building on the presented things is the key I believe …
It nowhere says you can’t cut the lesson into smaller chunks (also 5 minutes if you want) and many have done that. SSiW app always continues where you left (well at least it does for me). I also think there are recommendations for how to do the lessons but if you do them a bit different way, more slowly and do additional stuff, no one will be mad at you about that. At the end, it’s the most important thing that it all sticks finally and you are confident enough to make the ultimate deceision of going out in the wild and speak Cymraeg with the people. You do things your way and that surely is the right way for you. So, what I’ve written here are more suggestions and my personal views of the things. If something what I’ve written seams rude to you, I’m sorry, it wasn’t my intention in deed.
Ah yah and I’m happy I can use ENTER button on PC to fly through the given tasks faster.
Well, you see, for me it was kind of oposite way. I’ve learnt German by myself though the method which was teaching everything at the same time - writing, reading, speaking, grammar - and, to my surprise in the 3 months periode I could say, write and read quite some things and the grammar was no tthat hard to cope with (although even now German grammar seams quite hard to me). So, when I came here to learn Welsh I thought this should go even easier since we are learning only how to speak and not the other additional things. OHHHH, how I was wrong!!! I became a super nerd complaining all the time and constantly repeating that the method doesn’t work for me. It really took me 7 years to get at least near the level I should (by my measurements of course) be at least 3 years ago and a lot of bothering people on this forum, complaining and even being hostile from time to time all because of aimingn to perfection. So, if German was a game for me (but I’ve worked really hard every day, sitting for about an hour and was very disciplined), Welsh through SSiW was not. Partly because I didn’t want to use pause button at all (I didn’t do that back with German either) and because I thogught it has to stick everything on the first go. With the huge effort of @aran and all the other good people on here I eventually realized that it will all stick if I’d go on and do things a but more “proper” way than I did. So here I am … trying other languages through the SSi method, including Manx which is one step further by how hard it is to learn from Welsh for me. But now I know I shouldn’t be nerd and shouldn’t aim to perfection and all will one day just come to the righ tplace.
Vocabs mentioned above give you all this, but yes, not family members, countries and such stuff though.
Come on! Be brave! Even if you’d make mistakes … you can learn from them. Yes, I know it can be embarrassing some times but it isn’t the end of the world though. You know what you need to do, so go for it!
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Sorry to ask but does DuoLingo do it?
As I said above, I think I need both. And I also need to feel smart so I study some grammar, occasionally.
The weird thing is that Welsh is different. Two years ago, I did an intensive month of Spanish on Duolingo (learning every day) and then I went on a vacation to Ecuador and I used it there every day. And it worked quite well. But in Ecuador, most people can’t speak almost any English so there is no other way… I normally try English and when it doesn’t work, it forces me to use Spanish.
In Europe, I usually try to use at least greetings, thank you and simple phrases, in major languages. But in a similar situation, everyone knows I am a tourist and any try on using the local language is usually appreciated
Welsh is different because there is the possibility of using English and also because I live in a Welsh speaking area but I am not local. It’s a different type of pressure. I want to feel at home here but on some days, I just feel like an immigrant that shouldn’t be here. Sometimes I can get frustrated with simple things like people in shops speaking English to me because they remember that I don’t speak Welsh. I think I should use more often s’mae than hi, for example with my neighbours. But then I am afraid that they will think that I am trying to be something I am not… which is probably absolutely irrational feel.
Another thing is my education, I was learnt to do things perfectly or not do them at all… which is really incompatible with learning languages. I know I have to fight this.
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It’s not irrational to think this but I really don’t think they will. They’ll love that you can speak Welsh, absolutely adore it!
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Agreed. 100%. If starting a language from scratch, there is no way duolingo can come close to SSIW. The only plus point that I found was getting to know a few more nouns, which obviously is helpful, but hopeless for building up your brawddegau!
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you can’t beat hearing words being spoken, naturally by a real person and then finding out how to craft them into different sentences. I have learned a lot of vocabulary from reading books, duolingo and memrise, but the ones I consider to be my best friends - the words I would never worry or think twice about using have come from SSIW or from listening to local welsh speakers.
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So was I and being handicaped this was even more anchored in me hence I had to prove myself over and over again through my life. I’m not sure how handkicaped persons in other countries experience things but in our country one of my kind has to do twice as good and twice amout of the work than “ordinary” people in order to be recognized as other people’s equal. But also with the help of this forum I overcame this and just do the things as they come still as good as I possibly can in given circumstances but still, I’ve decided that perfection will not pose me a threat anymore and it will not pose my enemy ever again. If here wouldn’t be this forum and its members I might already quit learning Welsh long time ago and never ever come back. It worthed to try and that’s why I’m even more passionate about that one just has to try no matter what.
Yes, this happens in Slovenia in particular as not just that almost everyone can speak English but namy of us are bi-tri or even more lingual however … if you insist … I could “torture” you with my native language the whole time you’re visiting us. 
Oh, no … I didn’t want strongly opose that. We need more than both sometimes especially when we are getting further into learning and are just eager to do more, to know more …
Yes. DuoLingo uses TTS IVONA voice Gwyneth and this is synthetic voice, quite close to natural one but still not the real person. Her voice is very “tough” and unnatural especially when she “wants” to emphasise something. I’m very familiar with this voice as I own IVON TTS and S2G with it. It can surely help and it did so many times to me, but as @Toffidil says this can’t beat the natural voice presented words and structures. Unfortunately they don’t use another of those voices Geraint, which is a bit softer but isn’t that clear though. Good enough it is of course.
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I know I would feel more in awe of speaking Welsh if I lived there, instead of going to Wales as a tourist.
But the other day I happened to meet again a guy who has lived in Piedmont for maybe 25 or 30 years but is originally from Morocco. And he speaks Piedmontese like a native, way better than me and my friends! He lived in the countryside for a while, that’s why he learnt it. And he said everybody there absolutely loved it, and also in Turin I’m pretty sure he never met anyone who didn’t appreciate or criticized him for it.
So maybe we all tend to be too worried, even when it’s not necessary. 
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You’ve been always a great inspiration for me (and @gisella-albertini too), I love to see stories of non-Welsh people here, learning a completely foreign, unusual and distant language.
I was in Slovenia once, in Bled, for three days. I used English a lot on the first day but on the third day, I was able to use several words and also understand a lot in Slovenian, it’s not that far from Czech
BTW I think Czech is one of the most difficult languages to learn. I can’t understand how can anyone do it.
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Diolch. I try to help wherever and whenever I can.
I’m glad and I hlpe you had great and interesting time here.
Agree. There are differences but still one who understands Slovenian and Serbo-Croatian can quite easily understand Czech too.
I found it hard to write with all those accents, circumflexes etc but I didn’t even went into grammar once so I don’t know that part. DuoLingo is super useful for learning to write here as it doesn’t count for correct if you didn’t use the right “signs” too. Many words are similar to Slovene so the learning isn’t easier for that matter but even harder as you can make mistake really quickly.
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Ooh yes, I agree Tatjana. DuoLIngo has never worked for me and I now dream of SSiLoadsofLanguages. No pressure, mind.
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Totally agree! Duolingo has some value but SSIW is much much much better at teaching how to speak Welsh ‘in the wild’ as Aran says… 
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Putting the record straight… having found the web version of DuoLingo I blasted through quite a bit over this past Canada Day long weekend—sufficient to move into the more ‘interesting’ topics and have a good look around. While it duplicates a lot I had learned via the UWTSD-tailored ‘Memrise’ lessons, it provides very useful revision exercises.
To give credit where it is due—I hold to my original assessment that SSiW is by far the best course for learning to speak confidently and spontaneously, but DuoLingo does expand the range of vocabulary and helps with writing and reading Welsh.
Thank you to whomever had mentioned the web version of DuoLingo because my original negative comment was based on the App version.
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Good points - I’ve tried both, definitely prefer SSiW but had used other resources before I found SSiW. Thing is, I’m both strongly visual (point 3) and seriously grammar-minded (point 4), so if I hadn’t learnt quite a bit of grammar before trying SSiW I think I would have found it too annoying - I need to understand why I’m saying what I’m saying. I would still recommend SSiW over Duolingo (which I don’t feel explains much more, at least not on the early levels I’ve done), because I recognise that I’m a minority, and most people learn better the SSiW way. And I totally agree with the principle that it’s important to start speaking to real people as soon as possible, whether or not you’ve got the grammar right!
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It’s an interesting discussion topic and I won’t say a lot here because last time I contributed to a Duolingo related discussion I ended up getting emails from all manner of non-members of this forum calling me allsorts.
Duolingo is a great tool. I used it a lot when I got back into my French about 4 years ago, however I found that whilst they aren’t the best tools out there - I found Pimsleurs more useful in comparison to Duolingo as it got me actually speaking the language again (For those who haven’t heard of Pimsleurs, its an audio course in the vein of SSIW but about 20 years older and a lot slower - not unfamiliar to SSIWers though, 30 minute lessons, centred around everyday conversations).
The only problem with Duolingo in comparison with audio based courses such as SSIW et al, is the speed really. I’ve just started learning some Dutch as we’re going back to Amsterdam in a few months and whilst I know theres a SSID course that I have full access to, I started out on Duolingo three days ago, spending about an hour a day on there.
After these first three days, the only things I can say are “He drinks milk”, “I am a man”, “She is a woman” and “We read the newspaper” - that is my reward for 3 hours of hard work.
However, if I were learning Welsh with SSIW instead of Dutch with Duo, and I spent an hour a day, or roughly 2 lessons a day - after 3 days I’d be able to say things like “I want to say that I think that you speak it very well”, " You need to practice speaking more often, but you’ve done very well" and “I don’t want to stop now because I think it’s interesting” amongst others.
A good language learning strategy is a mixture of a number of things, your course/learning methodology, exposure to the language, aural input, going outside the comfort zone etc. So the best thing is probably using SSIW and Duolingo together to complement each other.
However, you will be hard pressed to hear me say anything other than SSIW is without doubt, the single best way to get someone actually speaking the language that they do in the pubs, the cafes and the streets of Wales. It changed my life!
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