Exactly. Sadly for some there is no acknowledgement that other forms are acceptable.
This may give the gsme away with regards the poster…but a disabled rights group had done something to campaign in welsh…this person thanked them but said “not really the time to ppint this out but your welsh did have a few errors”.
Honestly it begggars belief.
Chwarae teg Gareth!
But my last sentence still stands. Reasonable thing to say. Unless you want a blanket ban on the words “correct” and “incorrect” - a reasonable opinion and an arguable one - but most people use them with a wide meaning. But a sentence saying basically “it is better to use ers in this way” is a reasonable one, even if one disagrees with it 
On its own yes. Without seeing all the posts in total iys difficult to judge but hey whatever
Was that in reply to me? Just to say my last post wasn’t in reply to your last one, as it were- I hadn’t seen it!
Ah the beauty of the internet!
Dim ots. Dw i’n teimlo’n well rwan. Dw i 'di mwynhau dysgu a dw i’n edrych ymlaen at cyfarfod pobl newydd yn fuan. Mae’n bwysig. 
Mmm… Grammar. I like grammar. I really do. But I don’t want it to play the role of lingo policeman looking over my shoulder, ready to cosh me with the grammar book every time I break a rule.
I find grammar useful when learning a second language - and I don’t think that we can learn a second language the way we learn a mother tongue. It can be an exceedingly useful tool for the learner, who is not as constantly exposed to the second language in the same way as to a mother tongue. And I think that’s the point. Grammar is a tool, and not a master. But some people confuse this. It’s also useful for other things - technical writing for example - but spoken language is, and should be, very different from “formal” language. Linguistics refer to “registers” of language. I found the “Register (sociolinguistics)” Wikipedia article pertinent.
The spoken language is very much a living organism. It’s constantly changing in time, it varies geographically, and it’s unlikely that any two people speak it in an identical way.
So damn the trolls, get out there and use your Cymraeg as you see fit!
Grammar is useful, but it can be a huge barrier to stopping yourself having a go at saying something. I’m just happy, well thrilled tbh, to be understood by Welsh speakers. I’ve had a ‘mini-bootcamp’ at the Eisteddfod, I have made mistakes in probably every sentence I have uttered, I don’t care, I’ve been understood. Yes, I want to improve my Welsh and learn more grammar, but my big step in doing SSiW, was not letting myself get bogged down with perfection and just get somewhere with my Welsh, to not be daunted
I know fellow learners who don’t like using ‘licio’ and ‘joyo’ because it’s ‘not proper Welsh’, but i’ve just got home from my first night at MaesB (which I should have done 20 years ago!) and someone said ‘joyeith’ which I understood as ‘he will enjoy it’. I even got confused for a few seconds when someone said ‘tentio’ and I felt faintly embarrassed about using ‘pabell’ in my response.
The other thing, in this somewhat tired rant, is I’ve realised that I have to accept however wonderfully fluent I may become one day, I will never be a 1st language speaker. Not that there is anything wrong with this, but inevitably we learners learn rather formally, rather than picking the language up from parents and the local community.
I started off with the aim- albeit an aim with a rather vague timescale - of learning to speak Welsh as I would have had it been passed onto me directly and naturally in my family. As time has gone on, and my Welsh has got better, I have rather lost interest in that! As you say, if I can enjoy an evening down a pub and have a laugh in Welsh, I don’t give two hoots if someone thinks of me as a Welsh learner or not- just that they feel comfortable speaking to me in Welsh! Whether I make mistakes, use the wrong phrases, use words from other dialects, don’t use words from “my” dialect, use literary forms or whatever- I really don’t care as long as hey understand me and, as I say, are comfortable enough to have a laugh with me in Welsh! I may well always be obviously someone who has learned Welsh. I know longer care- getting rid of that impression no longer holds any interest for me.
And all the Welsh speakers I know, including every one of those who use fewer anglicisations than others use “lico”. It’s an old, well established Welsh word, which nobody I know who cares about such things cares about!
Licio… Centuries old!
I remember an argument in work many years ago. The usual everyone started speaking Welsh when we walked in. I said same happened to me in France. They all started speaking french. To which he said well yours is a ridiculous language you dont even have your own word for disco. Neither do you i replied, its french.
Oh, I adore that!! There are actually loads of examples of influences on English, none of which I can call to mind at this moment, but it was great to have one pointed out!!
Yes indeed…and it’s so well-established that it even takes the unreality endings as well: leiciwn i or leicsiwn i (or of course liciwn i or licsiwn i and various other variants) I would like, for example.
I used to advise my classes against hoffi, actually, if their aim was to sound authentic. Leicio (and variants) is the real word, and - as you say - centuries old! Hoffi promoted by the language police/ail iaith industry to try and fight back against the nasty English loanword.
17th century off the top of my head, I think. But “Hoffi” existed alongside it, I’m sure- I know people who have had no notable contact with second language teaching, learners or Welsh education who seem perfectly happy using it naturally- but lico is far more commonly used, certainly. Not every time someone uses “hoffi” is because of second language teaching! It’s a perfectly good word. They both are.
Oh, please, please, may I hoffi coffi??? In fact, dw’i 'n hoffi so naturally that I’d feel really odd using licio!!
Well I did used to make an honourable exception for this much-loved phrase, of course. [quote=“owainlurch, post:74, topic:5591”]
But “Hoffi” existed alongside it, I’m sure
[/quote]
Yes…GPC has it from the 14 century, though with varying meanings of course.
Gareth you are such a breath of fresh air. A kind of village language police 
Oh, it was certainly the earlier word as well, yes of course, (we have had the discussion before on this forum on which century the words come from [edit- or rather when they were first recorded in writing, of course] would you believe! That’s worrying! ) but I meant that “lico” surely did not replace “hoffi”, and “hoffi” is and has always been a perfectly good and natural word to use, not simply reintroduced by language teaching. They exist and existed happily and naturally side by side, with slightly different and common meanings. Nothing wrong with using “hoffi”, nothing wrong with teaching “hoffi”.
Plenty of Welsh speakers I know use “hoffi” outside that phrase, and don’t need anyone to make an exception for them!
On the theme of “learners’ forums on Facebook”, there was a rather funny argument on one of them last week about the difference between “dechrau” and “cychwyn” (they both mean ‘start’ or ‘begin’, and some pedants insist on their being used differently, which I think most SSiW people can safely ignore - I don’t know any first-language Welsh speakers who differentiate between them), in which two self-styled experts were arguing for exactly opposite meanings. They each were adamant they were correct, and each reeling off their list of credentials for being a Welsh expert. They were both, of course, entirely missing the point…
I am an editor by trade, and so I come up against the English-language version of this all the time - the Facebook grammar police. And, as @garethrking has already said, they are very often (if not invariably) wrong.
And in terms of getting out there as a learner, I can’t think of a single Welsh-speaker who hasn’t been delighted to hear that I’m learning when I tell them. The only learner who’s ever offended my first-language-Welsh partner was the idiot at our local pub quiz, who was sounding off about the (first-language) quiz master’s use of a Wenglish word.
I only ever edited amateur fan stuff, but I have always found that lots of ways of saying the same thing (of which English, being a polyglot in itself, has a plethora!) is a good way of introducing variety into a long prose piece! Who cares when this or that entered the language - it’s here now and that is all that matters!
To @petermescall I agree Gareth is a breath of fresh air, but I don’t think he’s any kind of policeman… well… maybe Prys Plismon who uses explanation and friendly persuasion rather than arrest!!! (And has a Wenglish name!)