Well, there is some sneakiness going on now…words being dropped into the lessons that haven’t been formally introduced. Tricksy, you are In Gwers 23 it is “am” - okay, we’ve seen amdana i, amdano fe and amdani (hi), but not just “am” as in “am rhywbeth”. Fine, I can roll with that. But near the end of Gwers 23, I’m pretty sure I hear “Nagw, dw i ddim ar fin meddwl am ddim byd.” So is there a rule that words soften after “am”? I know, I know, we aren’t supposed to say the word “rule” and worry about grammar, but if you are going to ask me to say stuff, I want to say it right!
In Gwers 24 (oh, this one is giving me fits, it’s going to take a bunch of repetitions before I can say any of this before Cat), “os” for “if” gets dropped in without introduction. Okay, no problem. But there is one sentence I don’t understand. “He will be allowed to finish the cheese if she is allowed to drink the milk.” (A bit odd; somehow makes me think of ruses to get one’s children to eat food they don’t want, but whatever ). I am hearing “Bydd e’n cael cwpla’r caws os yw hi’n cael yfed y llaeth.” I thought it should be “os mae hi’n…”
And one more question, not related to these particular lessons. I realized tonight as I was making up sentences that we really only use “rhoi” in the lessons as “give it to”, e.g. “ei rhoi e i fi”. Is “Bydda i’n rhoi y bara i ti” (I will give the bread to you) correct?
Sorry, this post has become rather long with three questions. Diolch yn fawr for your help!
“Am” is introduced in Lesson 6.1 with “am hynny” (about that). You’re right that it’s not been formally introduced on its own, but there have been examples of its meaning when it crops up with, or part of other words (such as “amdani”). It is also introduced Lesson 21 with “am byth” (forever) and “am tro” (for a turn, or “for a walk” in the sentence “mynd â chi am dro”), and in Challenge 3 of the new course as “am fis” (for a month) and “am biti mis” (for about a month) if you’re following that too (note that “am” means both 'about and ‘for’ in this context). And you’re right, “am” usually softens the next word.
“Os” however, isn’t formally introduced until Lesson 7 of course 2. However, come course 3, the words will start appearing without introduction (not all of them mind, but some). What you will find is that yes, you will get stumped when you hear it the first time, but your brain remembers it when you hear it the second time. And you’ll find you learn more words than you realise because the time to introduce and/or explain them is reduced, so there’s more practice material. The course guide for course 3 lists all these words whether they’re formally introduced or not, which is a help (after you’ve first tackled the lesson, of course!).
“mae” is normally used if making a statement, like ‘She is allowed to drink the milk’ would be “Mae hi’n cael yfed y llaeth”. In this sentence, the word “os” is used, so it becomes a suggestion (I think I’m explaining this well - if not then hopefully someone will explain it better!). “Yw hi’n cael yfed y llaeth” can also be represented as a question if you put a question mark on the end of the sentence (as introduced in lessons 9 and 10).
That is correct. “Rhoi” means ‘to give’ or ‘to put’, but in these lessons so far, ‘to give’ is the meaning practiced.
@louis Thanks, Louis! I’m glad to know I heard correctly and I should soft mutate after am. And I should have known it was “rhoi’r”!
@faithless78 Thanks so much for your very detailed reply! (You’re Gavin, right? You’ve been so helpful to me, I feel like I should know your name…) Isn’t it funny - you are right about all those other “am” phrases we’ve learned! I guess I have them all in my head as single units - “am hynny”, “am byth”, etc. and I don’t think of them as “am” + another word. (I haven’t done the new course yet, but I plan to run through that after I finish Course 1 plus vocab, before I start Course 2). And since I haven’t separately learned the words that are after “am” in those phrases, I wouldn’t know if there were mutations in them. I guess I need to pay more attention to each word on its own
Learning more words in less time i s good, and I’m not complaining about lack of formal introduction (just noticing)…but I am glad to know that all the words will be in the course guide for Course 3, because that will be very helpful.
What you said about “os” making what follows into a suggestion, and thus the question word “yw” gets used instead of “mae” makes sense. There were sentences in the lesson with “os dw i’n” and “os yn ni’n” as well. Thinking about it, I realize we haven’t learned the question forms “Am I?” or “Are we?” yet, so I can’t see yet if there is a pattern there.
Diolch yn fawr - really appreciate that you both took time to answer my questions
Well just on that one (and I can remember scratching my head about this in the beginning), it is reasonably straightforward: “ydw i…?”
and (familiar singular) “are you…?”: “wyt ti…?”.
However, I learn Northern, and there are a few little differences between that and Southern in this part of the language, so will leave to someone else to talk about the other “persons” of the verb.
In Gwers 23 it is “am” - okay, we’ve seen amdana i, amdano fe and amdani (hi), but not just “am” as in “am rhywbeth”. Fine, I can roll with that. But near the end of Gwers 23, I’m pretty sure I hear “Nagw, dw i ddim ar fin meddwl am ddim byd.” So is there a rule that words soften after “am”? I know, I know, we aren’t supposed to say the word “rule” and worry about grammar, but if you are going to ask me to say stuff, I want to say it right!