I have a few questions.
1.) Why is it ‘Hoffwn i’ but ‘Byddai fe/hi’n hoffi’? Is there a reason why you use ‘bod’ for ‘e/hi’ but not for ‘i’?
2.) What is the difference between ‘Byddai fe/hi…’ and ‘Basai fe/hi…’? I thought that the former was ‘He/she will (be)…’ and the later was 'He/she would (be)…).
3.) I have just reached Lesson 14 and I’m finding it incredibly difficult compared to the previous lessons. I am especially struggling with remembering whether I was supposed to say ‘ddoe’ or ‘neithiwr’ or ‘he told me to tell you/you told him to tell her/she told you to tell me’ etc. I know which one is which but in the lessons I always seem to forget exactly what the English was and just end up saying anyone. I’ve been over this lesson twice now and I’m very hesitant to move on if it’s just going to get even harder.
4.) I’m finding it really tough to remember the SSiW variations. I’ve been learning through a Dysgu Cymraeg course too and I’m still confused if I should try to say the words/phrases I know or if I need to get the SSiW version exactly right to progress?
-Cwrddais i/Gwnes i gwrdd… vs. Nes i gwrdd…
-Ddoe vs. Ddo (not sure on the spelling of many of these, sorry)
-Dy fod di vs. bo ti
-Ei bod hi vs. bod hi/bo hi etc.
It’s really hard to ‘overrride’ my brain on words and phrases I’ve learned in my other course and that people at work use with me.
hopefully I have a few answers!
for “I would like”, you can use either hoffwn i or byddwn/baswn i’n hoffi and for “he/she would like” you can use either hoffai fe/hi or byddai/bysai fe/hi. Which you do use is really only a matter of preference.
There are two variations of the conditional tense. One follows the pattern byddwn, byddet, byddai, etc, and the other follows the pattern byswn, byset, bysai, etc. They both mean exactly the same - “would”.
The “will” pattern is similar to the byddwn pattern but crucially, the endings are different - bydda i, byddi di, bydd e/hi, etc.
Don’t panic! 14 is notoriously challenging (and Aran has apologised numerous times for it!), and things do get easier after it. Move on anyway - the material will get repeated later in the course (in slightly easier chunks).
There are so many variations in spoken Welsh, and whichever one course chooses, another course is bound to choose a different one. Use whatever comes to your head first. It won’t hamper your progression with SSiW at all, but it will improve your ability to equate variations so that even when someone uses a version you don’t use yourself, you’ll be familiar with it and it won’t throw you in conversation.
Hope that helps
Can I just add to what Siaron has said above - that you definitely DON’T need to get it exactly right to progress, not at any time! Make lots of mistakes and learn from them is the SSiW way
OK, thank you for explaining!
Thank you for explaining.
Looks like I was getting bydda i, baswn i and now this new one byddwn confused
So just to be clear the full patterns are:
Bod future Dysgu Cymraeg:
Bod conditional Dysgu Cymraeg:
Bod future SSiW:
Bod conditional SSiW:
Bod conditional SSiW 2:
If anyone has time to check this for me that would be great I think I am even more confused how I’ve typed it all out
The standard forms are
Baswn i & Byddwn i
Baset ti & Byddet ti
Basai fe/fo/hi & Byddai fe/fo/hi
Basen ni & Bydden ni
Basech chi & Byddech chi
Basen nhw & Bydden nhw
Then there are colloquial (spoken) variations of these where some of the vowel sounds often change, which is how you end up with forms like byswn, basa, etc.
Because SSiW concentrates on spoken forms, that’s why there are the variations, but they all stem from the standard forms that Dysgu Cymraeg teach. It honestly doesn’t matter which you go for in speech, though in written Welsh it may be better to stick to the standard forms unless it’s very informal writing.
OK, thank you very much for clearing that up.
I am going to give SSiW a rest for a bit because it’s stressing me out too much trying to get my head around some of the stuff in lessons 14 and 15- anything with byddai or ddwedodd in I just cannot seem to get right.
Thanks for your help anyway.
I’m so glad I read this. Dwi’n wedi bod joio dysgu gymraeg…but 13/14/15 have really fried my brain. Up until this point I was feeling super confident. I’m now on 16 and feeling a bit better but really struggled with those last 3.
Yes, that’s the infamous trio! If you use the search here for “challenge 13”, “challenge 14”, “challenge 15”, you’ll get posts from lots of people who’ve come up against them (and survived!), often with some great tips as to how to cope with them (and as I mentioned before, posts from Aran apologising! )
Ah, glad I’m not the only one. I’ve just done the second half of Lesson 15 and it was better.
I remember that stage, and can only say that 13, 14 and 15 are exactly like “Amen Corner” at the US Masters!
I did SSin Welsh to and including level 3 before starting Dysgu Cymraeg at Sylfaen foundation level, missing out Mynediad altogether. It gave me more confidence to speak. My sister who has only learned with Dysgu Cymraeg hasn’t any confidence speaking. Everyone is different but just thought id add that to the discussion
I was chatting with a Dysgu Cymraeg tutor once who ran a lot of weekend “Sadwrn Siarad” sessions. She said she loved having SSiW learners in the classes as they were more confident about speaking and encouraged the others. She also said they were the ones who usually tried to carry on speaking Welsh at coffee breaks instead of lapsing into English.
A broad generalisation, but encouraging to hear.
Oh dear, doesn’t bode well for me then as I’m almost at the end of Sylfaen with Dysgu Cymraeg but have only just started SSiW Wish I’d done it the other way round.
Definitely Deborah. I go to a chat group every week now to talk to people who are first language speakers, and people who are learning Welsh. I didn’t have any Welsh before I started SSin. So thank you so much all there.
I will finish Sylfaen this term too. I totally understand where youre coming from, as because SSin is more normal spoken Welsh it can be very confusing when you then get the school/University Welsh. I have to say the first language speakers in our group as well as some of my Welsh speaking friends find the Dysgu Cymraeg Welsh hard to understand. I dip in and out of SSin now and if you stick with it i think youll find that eventually you will be glad you did both.
You’re not alone! I was trying to do that while I was on a ski holiday too!! Time was limited and I thought I’d never get through it. I went into the next lesson and felt ok about it all again. Still struggling with the ‘he said that, or told me to say’ etc but sure it’ll come.
I too learn through a different course. I’ve done Duolingo for a year and a half and also find some words and phrases are different so I ask my Welsh buddies which they use.
Keep going! We will win!!
How are you finding it? I’ve got to the stage where I’m skipping lessons regularly since I’m so bored of it. I don’t speak to anyone outside of the class in Welsh, other than some people at work babbling at me in advanced Welsh I can’t understand!
I’m going to stick with it. I don’t always enjoy the class as there is less opportunity to speak, but our tiwtor uses a lot of Welsh when speaking which I can mostly get the gist of. It’s also quite different to the way many first language speakers use it, but its what the children learn at school and my nephews go (and my new granddaughter will go) to a Welsh medium school so it’s worth me picking up as much as I can.
My main motivation in starting during the first Lockdown was to keep my brain active (I’m 70 now) and I both love and am frustrated by it🤔