Our beginners Welsh class are following the NEW Northern course one. Their teacher has gone to Wales for two months (as you do) and I will be going to Wales for five months after that. We had hopes of finding a replacement teacher but, so far, no luck.
We have decided to combine beginners and intermediate classes. The intermediates have generously offered (been obliged) to swap to the NEW southern course one rather than go on with the old course two. I will try to keep them extended while juggling the questions that arrive from introducing two dialects to beginners.
There will be questions. I’m pretty sure I can answer most of them except for am biti mis. I said that phrase to my north Welsh friends the other day. They had never hear of it. I have asked this before, I think on an earlier manifestation of the forum. But what is biti a contraction of? My dictionary has o boptu as one possible variation for about. Is this the same word? Poptu? I can’t seem to find it in my dictionaries.
I wonder also whether there might be a written lesson guide for the NEW southern course? The northern one is so helpful.
Gavin is compiling a PDF for new Level 1 (Southern), so drop him a PM.
I am not sure biti is a contraction of anything really, just a slang word equivalent to tua in this context, but I may well be wrong as I am not studying Southern Welsh. Either way, SSIW mantra applies for your students…
Thanks Stuart. I believe I recall Iestyn saying it was am bob tu or something like that. I can’t remember the meaning. If I was just doing the one dialect, I wouldn’t be so worried. The class wouldn’t know there was another option. As it is…they will know. I want to allay confusion and make them feel confident to follow the course they are doing. I personally use tua but only because the am biti pattern is new to me.
I’m not very good at this new interface. I have replied to messages but never started one. What do I click on?
Biti is apparntly a contraction of “o beutu”, with beu being an old word for “every” (You may come across the word ebunydd, meaning everyday, for instance). Tu has the meaning of a side or direction - as in tu ôl, behind, tu chwith, the wrong way round etc. So beutu = every side.
I’m not very good at this new interface. I have replied to messages but never started one. What do I click on?
Do you mean to start a new thread? Click on “General Questions” (green box) to take you to the index page, then you’ll see a “start new thread” box at the top roght of the page.
No, I mean sending private messages. I have found Gavin now. He wrote to me. I’ve not yet worked out how to find someone out of nowhere and write to them. But, I just have to put the time in and Gavin has already sent me a message with the draft southern course guide.
I have found beunydd in the geiriadur mawr on the Welsh side. When I look up about on the English side it has, among other things, o boptu. Is this the same word? Also what is the literal meaning of am beu tu/bob tu? I have one learner who like me actually finds it helpful to understand and know the literal meaning of the patterns like - there is a cat with me, for example, rather than I have got a cat.
Am is a words which doesn’t fit a single English meaning, so although we teach that “am” is “for”, that’s only one of it’s translations. The am in am boptu / am beutu is more of an “around”. For instance, you would wear clothes or a hat “amdanat”
Examples:
Mae het am ei ben - there is a hat on (about) his head
Mae plât ar ei ben - there is a plate on his head
Mae esgid am ei droed - there is a shoe on (about) his foot
Mae dafaden ar ei droed - there is a wart on his foot.
am beutu, then is (literally) about every side, athough it has become much wider in use to encompass most of the English “about” meanings.
Yes, very helpful. I don’t know that about hats and shoes. I’ve been saying it wrong all along.
Welsh is very full of imagery. The idea of a hat being about a head as opposed to on it evokes the image of a hat. Our class also enjoyed looking up wedi blino and racs which I think we worked out meant tatters. Very evocative. We are all wedi blino yn racs bob tro now.
Why are these patterns different? I believe this is a change from what Aran taught in the old Gog course. I understand that Cymraeg is benywaidd, hence the mutation after y. What is your rationale behind the change, Aran? Also, why is it not the same in the SW course? I am just anticipating questions here.
My understanding is that “yn Gymraeg” should be “yn y Gymraeg”, but common usage often drops the y but retains the soft mutation. In one lesson, Aran explains that ymarfer Cymraeg is properly ymarfer y Gymraeg.
As always, I should emphasise that "het am ei ben etc " vs “het ar ei ben” ar subtle, probably not noticed, and often (under the constant pressure of English) mixed up. Don’t sweat the manylion!
And Essenbee is bang on - yn y Gymraeg / Yn Gymraeg are interchangeable. In the south, yn y Gymraeg sounds a bit formal to my ear, but that’s the case with a lot of northernism! Whichever you use will be understood perfectly well (and lets face it, not noticed!)
I have occasionally gained the perception that non-northerners think northerners sound a bit “correct” …and that they don’t necessarily mean this as a compliment.
@faithless78 No, it’s a bit like “ac mae”, just because the “y” has “disappeared” doesn’t mean that any other rules change. It’s still there, you just can’t hear it!
@mikeellwood It’s an odd thing, but an awful lot of Welsh speakers, especially those who only use their Welsh in familiar surroundings, think that any one speaking Welsh that is not familiar to them is speaking “better” Welsh than them, which iwhy you still get people saying “Oh, I won’t speak Welsh with you, because I’ll just teach you slang” etc. Or they’ll say that the form you are using sounds like it’s northern (or southern, depending on where you aren’t!).
As always, I should emphasise that "het am ei ben etc " vs “het ar ei ben” ar subtle, probably not noticed, and often (under the constant pressure of English) mixed up. Don’t sweat the manylion!
I think in the scheme of all that I still need to learn, am/ar is the least of my worries. I figure I’ll be understood either way. Added to which, people are very forgiving when they realise I am an Australian.
