Maen or ydyn after 'os'?

Welsh General / Questions
#1

Level 2, lesson 8

‘We don’t know if they want to spend less time’

'Dyn ni ddim yn gwybod os nhw’n moyn hala llai o amser

After ‘os’ would you use ‘maen’ or ‘ydyn’?

#2

Is that really what is said in the audio? As far as I remember the clause following “os” is an implied question (“do they want to spend less time?”), so you’d use the question form ydyn, which in the southern dialect usually gets shortened to ŷn in these cases, so that it sometimes just gets lost in the wash of speech. The sentence should be
Dyn ni ddim yn gwybod os ŷn nhw’n moyn hala llai o amser fel grŵp.

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#3

I’ll assume that wasn’t meant to sound as patronising as it does. No, the audio uses ‘so ni ddim’ i think, but under the advice of SSiW I use the version that I use and hear used around me- dyn ni ddim.

My hearing isn’t good, so unfortunately I don’t always hear these small words.

I didn’t hear ŷn so I wanted to check if it was missing, or if it is the question or statement for that is used.

Thank you for your answer.

#4

I never mean to sound patronising, so if I did, I am sorry. English is not my first language, so I really don’t know how to convey things like that. Please rest assured that I answer here to help people, not to put them down.

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#5

Thank you, it’s much appreciated :slight_smile:

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#6

As Hendrik states, after ‘os’ , ydyn nhw should be used and not os maen nhw. This is often shortened in the south to ‘os ŷn nhw’ in speech.
Although, I should qualify that by saying that you will here some speakers say ‘os maen nhw’ even though according to the ‘rules’ it isn’t technically correct. By the way, it is also common in Welsh to use the future tense after ‘os’

Os byddan nhw’n hwyr - if they’re late.

All this leads on to the next point that technically ‘os’ shouldn’t be used in the example you quote (even though lots of speakers would use it when speaking naturally).
In the example you give the Welsh ‘equivalent’ tothe English ‘whether’ should technically be used i.e. ‘a’ so:

Dw i ddim yn gwybod (a) ydyn / ŷn nhw’n dod.

I put the ‘a’ in brackets as it is often left out in speech. It would also be possible to use the future here to as another option.

Dw i ddim yn gwybod (a) fyddan nhw’n dod

Again just to stress, it would be very common to hear ‘os’ being used for this in speech even though it’s not technically correct