Just food for thought: In my corner of the world there are probably no Welsh speakers for miles. It is unlikely that I will ever “need” to use the language during my dealings with the world.
I wonder if other people have witnessed the following rather simple observation. When chatting with friends and acquaintances , I sometimes mention that I’m learning Welsh. The more narrow-minded they are (in general), the more likely it is that I’ll get a “why on earth?” answer. Conversely, the open-minded ones will usually reply with a “Wow: how interesting; good luck!” It seems to be quite consistent. I may have actually discovered a new statistical law, the Pinnick Correlation.
(For the record, I’m trying to learn Welsh because I WANT to.)
Comments?!
Pinnick being my surname.
Your observation does not surprise me! I have to. admit to curiosity as to why you chose Cymraeg. Are you interested in our ancient history? Or do you want to help languages with less than a certain number of speakers? Or was it a ‘pin in the map’ job? How did you find out that yr hen iaith even existed?
Lwc dda i ti!
Yes, without doubt a correct correlation. Would Pinnick’s Law therefore suggest that the more open minded are naturally more optimistic as well?
Grew up in Brum, and we went on many family holidays to Wales, so I feel that I’ve always sort of known the places. One of my earliest childhood memories is knowing that the Welsh language exists. As we’d drive up the A5 or somewhere into Wales, my Dad would announce that we’re crossing the border, and I’d see a bilingual sign proclaiming “Welcome to Wales” and something that seemed to sound like “Croy so eye jimroo”. It’s all been downhill since…
I somtimes get the “why are you learning that” reaction. I just ask them "so what other language do you speak " and they generally don’t have a reply as a large proportion of Australians (in my area) are monolingual english. But a lot more people think it is amazing I can speak welsh and are genuinely interested.
Sorry, @Baruch, I had in my head that you lived in Israel, not sure why! And so Cymraeg seemed an unlikely choice. It also implied that you already speak Hebrew and Arabic!!
To @Leighton I may be wrong, but I have this notion that folk in Australia see Welsh as simply a connection with the ancestors and perfectly natural, whereas in UK, a lot of folk, even with Welsh ancestry, see it as archaic, retrograde and better off dead - after all, it was banned for years!
henddraig: I now live in Israel, but I visit the UK a lot and try to get to Wales when I can. I speak Hebrew and I’m trying an intoductory course in Arabic. Welsh is not unlikely a choice if one doesn’t look too hard for a utilitarian reason!
Yeah that is probably pretty accurate @henddraig. Iwas suprised at the very negative attitudes af some welsh people I have met, especially one I used to work with who originally came from Swansea. But there are others who when I have said “oi t’n gybod sut i siarad cymreag?” they look at me sheepishly and say no, but the wish they did. And as I have mentioned before I also know a first language welsh speaker who is eager to speak it (though not available very often). I just need more practice speaking it with people as i haven’t used it for a few weeks now.
Well, I started learning Hebrew at one stage! Not sure if reason counts as utilitarian! I had a flat-mate who was engaged to a Jewish lad who aimed to live in Israel. She promised to learn Hebrew and was having trouble. It is another ancient Language, so I volunteered to learn with her, to help and encourage her. My best laid plans failed.when her fiancé discovered I was getting on better than she was, so I stopped at once! Now, I don’t even remember the alphabet!
I’ve been surprised at the negative responses that I’ve had from people who I would otherwise have thought of as open-minded and egalitarian, actually. Some people see learning Welsh as backward and divisive, as though stubborn Welsh speakers are actively trying to throw barriers in the way of a nice fluid discourse between people who can all speak English perfectly well, by reverting to what I’ve been told is a ‘dead language’. And I’ve met quite a few people who see speaking Welsh as part of some exclusive and small-minded nationalism, akin to that of the EDL. I think I’m going to have to peer review your paper on the Pinnick Correlation, because my studies contradict!
I wonder if these correlations might vary on a location basis - it might be that in the rest of the world, open-minded+egalitarian=how.interesting, while in England in particular there is a set of misperceptions that makes open-minded+egalitarian!=how.interesting possible…
Is there a typo in that, by any chance, @aran? 
I have read it three times and still think you may have meant ‘impossible’ at the end. But it is Welsh people who don’t speak Welsh who I think sometimes have a problem. Some feel guilty. More, I suspect, feel that others are judging their ‘Welshness’, so they defensively say, “Who needs Welsh? It’s so near dead, it might as well lie down. We all speak English!” I think any Welsh person’s reaction to learners is coloured by years of collective experience and cannot be considered by Baruch’s criteria! In England? I tended to meet more who asked to hear some Welsh and could I say that long name? (LlanfairPG) 
Mind, I tended to mix with open-minded scientists!
Here in Scotland, they are more effected by my still terrible lack of knowledge of Scots! I am for ever having to ask for explanations!
I think you’ve missed the !.
There are some attitudinal issues with Welsh people who don’t speak Welsh, but far less so than used to be the case - I’d generally expect open-minded+egalitarian=how.interesting as a general rule in that context.
I am too thick to understand about the ! in the middle of your statement, Is it a convention of Logic? As to your point about attitudes, I am so very glad that things have changed since my day!
No, != is a mathematical symbol - probably popularised by the onset of keyboards which didn’t have ≠ as an option. I’d guess it dates back at least to C.
Location and background/attitude, I think, because I think the misconceptions often stay with people when they move. I was told the other day that Welsh is a dead language and I wouldn’t be able to use it, by an English person who lives in a Welsh-speaking area. Despite the fact that he knew I’d just come back from a full day event held entirely in Welsh! But he then went on to complain that ‘the English’ in Wales are insular and behave like ex-pats…
I think it’s partly a result of the ‘two worlds’ that you talk about in your book - people can live amongst Welsh speakers, feel integrated into a community, and yet have no idea of this parallel Welsh-language world that is around them. It feeds into their misconceptions about Welsh being an old, dead language that isn’t really used any more.
But I don’t want to give a skewed representation of ‘English attitudes’ - most of the responses that I’ve had from people in England (and English people in Wales) about learning Welsh have been on the ‘how interesting’ end of the spectrum!
I am amazed I hadn’t met it, but I had not! Was/is there one for ‘approximately equal to’?? The things I learn on this Forum never cease to amaze me!! Diolch yn fawr!!!
Mathematical, but also used in computer languages (such as C, as you say), to express logical constructs, so @henddraig was sort of on the right lines by mentioning L|logic (see what I did there …? ) (| is logical “OR” @henddraig). You might have come across Fortran in your scientific career henddraig, but I don’t think original Fortran used the ! (NOT), although it did have type “LOGICAL” variabes. (I’m sure current versions of Fortran do have it though).
But @aran, I’m intrigued by your ease of use of the ≠ symbol. My keyboard doesn’t have it, and, while not new, it’s not all that old. How did you produce it (and on what type of keyboard? (I’m asking with my one-time(old-time)-techie hat on).
I don’t know how to type it, but in school maths and physics, we used to write a version of the “=” sign" with one of the lines squiggly/curly.