If people hold this idea, it is something we should encourage them to change. People simply speak Welsh to communicate, not to exclude people.
Thus it is important to encourage people to talk to Welsh speakers in their area, so they can see this is a false idea.
We are speaking about Welsh.
And yes, it can be spoken āin front of strangersā. I worry for any society where any language can not be spoken āopenly in the streetā, āin front of strangersā.
Mistrust and bigotry is often behind that.
Iāll drink to all of them! And Iāve a feeling that if that does not include you, thatās only because you donāt live in Wales 
So hereās to you Tatjana!
You often say how much other people have helped and inspired you, but your attitude and words do the same for others, so good for you!
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This post really resonates with me. Both myself and my wife are learning welsh as our eldest has just started at welsh medium education and I have always wanted to be a welsh speaker. I have been doing SSIW for a year now and I have so must praise for it. I tell everyone learning welsh that they should be doing it. It is amazing how far you can come with it. At Bore Coffe at Ty Tawe this weekend, I even got asked if welsh was my first language which was a massive confidence boost! On the other side of things, My wife came back from her first evening class last week (Sylfaen 1) and was surprised by the lack of conversation during the 2 hours. At one point, she said she offered a reply for one of the tutors questions and the tutors response was that it was good although they havenāt covered the future tense yet! My wife also does SSIW and was educated until 7 through the medium of welsh so has a fairly good understanding. It seemed crazy to me that there were some people who have been studying welsh for 2 years on this course (entry and mynediad) and that they still hadnāt covered the future tense.
I would love to see the SSIW approach adopted in the traditional classroom. Although I have done all the SSIW lessons, I still go back every week to revisit the last 2 lessons and now I just want to keep try building my vocabulary. Cannot praise SSIW highly enough.
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It is good to hear that I am not the only one that found the traditional methods did not work. That is only good as I donāt feel as if I was a minority
However it is as someone says such a massive waste of time, money, effort and sadly wasted opportunity to develop the language
Seems that if there is demand that people want to speak - the learning method with high drop outs is the issue. So something needs to change but all that happens is lots and lots and lots more classes are advertised but who can actually attend two hours every week anyway ?
I give regular thanks to SSiW
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Diolch yn fawr iawn ac Iechyd da i bawb yma ar SSi(W) 
Well, diolch @tatjana! When I have time, Iāll put a piece on driving on Gower in the āAre you sitting comfortably?ā thread. I admit to exaggeration as I actually only had one unexpected encounter with a big wet black cow on a wet black road and I was going uphill and slowing for a sharp bend, so it wasnāt too hard to slow right down and pass the cow in the other lane. I did know nobody was coming the other way, as headlights always shone on the hedges, so you could see approaching vehicles before they arrived!
Iām ashamed to say, I didnāt pull into the entrance of the nearest farm to tell them about the cow, because I was a bit shaken and it was pouring with rain. Fortunately we heard no reports of an accident with a cow that night or later, so all was well! If it had been in our village, I would have told the nearest farmer, but then I know all ours!
Iām no expert at learning languages, so I have nothing to compare it to - but the adult ed class Iāve joined over here in Gwent doesnāt give a lot of confidence in the system.
For me, part of the problem first walking into the class was that I knew nothing, zip, nada. Being presented with poorly constructed sheets without any indication of how the words were pronounced was bewildering. It took a lot of extra work from other sources to get any idea of how the letters were pronounced and the āextra workā sheets and videos are completely useless. BBC videos on the first and most basic lesson videos are much better and easier to follow.
Finding the system on SSIW made a lot more sense: the focus on listening and repeating the phrases before trying to read and write them. Iām trying to supplement the class with other material thatās friendly to an absolute novice like me, if I was trying to do it solely from the class materials, Iām sure Iād get nowhere at all.
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This is exactly what the teachers in Aberteifi do. They have a list of willing first language and experienced Welsh speakers and they organise them to visit the classes, 3 at a time, to sit with small groups and give them practice at basic friendly conversation. It works well, though even with that to spur them on, the tutors say that they know some donāt speak a word of Welsh all week between classes. Itās not that thereās a lack of opportunity. They just canāt seem to get up the courage to take that first step. Perhaps they need Ffrindiaith or a ālanguage buddyā to go with them and help them over the barrier.
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I think part of the problem here is that most people think they have to be perfect before they actually start using the language outside of class.
The popular myth (probably still held as fact by many mainstream scientists) is that the adult brain is not āplasticā enough to learn a new language fluently as a child would. It seems obvious to me that the actual reason most adults are unsuccessful is that they do not learn the same way as the successful children do (by immersion). A combination of being ātoo busyā to be immersed in the new language at length and ātoo embarrassedā to learn through making mistakes like a child, conspire to block most adults from their potential to be just as successful as a child, if only they would approach the exercise like a child.
The positive outcomes from SSiW Bootcamps and determined SSiW learners who have also practised as much as possible in the wild serve to prove that it is exposure to raw language usage, not age, that determines success. Of course, even those who have not had the opportunity to converse in the wild typically do better with SSiW because it does a good job of replicating the patterns which are used in real conversations.
Language teaching needs to change (and with the help of modern technology, it can). But the change will be disruptive to the established order, so we can expect more than a little resistance to it. Ultimately, learners will have to vote with their wallets and enlightened language mentors will have to embrace the approach that works.
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Do they? Do the tutors encourage them to get out and speak? I have to say the ones I have had have done just that, encouraging local dialect, encouraging people to get out and speak in the community.
I know I saw a minority of the classes out and about at āWelsh Eveningsā, as it were, and I donāt know what the others were doing!
Itās a very common perspective among language learners. Having said that, itās then up to the teachers to actually tell them that this isnāt the case, and to encourage them to use their Welsh, but the problem is there.
Iām going through the practicalities at the minute and itās not great. Iāve been looking at courses and trying to find one I can actually get to. Iāve already missed the start dates, so would have to try to squeeze on late, if thatās even possible. I have looked at where and when and basically almost everything is either in the day or in the wrong locations. I have now narrowed whatās feasible down to three slots that fit my available times - I can do a Cymraeg iār teulu on a wednesday evening, which looks way way too easy and starts about half an hour too early anyway, and then an intermediate on a Tuesday evening, which is the perfect time and location for me and then an intensive advanced on a Monday, which is a little bit further away and might struggle to make all the classes, plus not sure if I could just jump straight in at that level, without doing the earlier levels. If I picked intermediate I worry it might be too easy and if I pushed the boat out and chose intensive advanced it might be above my ability level and I might not be able to make it more than half of the lessons. Also this is a two year course and Year 2 is in Swansea, which is just a bit too far for me to go to in the weekday evenings, so I would only be able to do Yr 1.
I basically do this every now and then and ultimately think, its not going to work and give up. Why canāt we have tutors who do surgeries - so I could book thirty minutes slots here and there in the evenings. They do an on-line course and skype, but Iām a skypophobe and that wonāt work.
Go for the Tuesday evening one.
Phone up the provider and check it is actually running in the advertised place and turn up tonight. They will be glad to see you.
Donāt bring your wallet, although tutors, in my experience never accept money for the class. If itās too easy, you will know and you donāt need to go again but could go up to the intensive advanced one. You may be the person who keeps the class running.
Lots of people donāt make all the classes, but those that do do better. If you havenāt done classes before, or even if you have, itās a bit like walking on jelly. Keep on going.
Any real problems, post them here. Someone will help!
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Diolch yn fawr - Iām going to ring them now for tomights one. Never done one of these before so will be a bit interesting.
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I cant believe the sheer volume of courses run in the day and how few are run at evenings and weekends.
Welsh for adults? Welsh for adults who donāt work or donāt have young children or others to care for more like.
I feel like with all the money that is ploughed into this that its ridiculous that so much is aimed at people who learn welsh as a hobby and so little is available for those of us who practice every day.
I spoke about this with someone last night. I wish the welsh government and local authorities would do something to help people learn quickly. By learning quickly the number of wasted opportunities will surely decrease as more people develop a working knowledge of the language. Imagine what could be achieved by two solid weeks of SSIW for example.
If this was coupled with a strategy of positive reinforcement eg welsh first on everything and everywhere, more people would acquire and then use the language.
Its so frustrating trying to learn and finding nothing suitable so that i am left with SSIW, memrise, s4c, radio cymru, saith seren and panad a sgwrs. These are are great in themselves but as a taxpayer i am funding welsh language courses that are no use to me meaning i will have to fork out extra for something else during my holidays.
Another rant over.
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Good advice from margaretknock there, inmho!
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but as a taxpayer i am funding welsh language courses that are no use to me
As a taxpayer you are funding lots of things that are no use to you, of course.
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well of course and i have no problem in paying for things i dont useā¦its called society.
I do however have a problem in paying for things that clearly are not working.
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