Hidden treasures: What do you now know about SSiW that you wish you'd known before?

Welsh General / Questions
#21

Thanks for these questions, Iestyn

I’ve been wondering what information should we give new learners to help them to use the course?
Well, this question threw up for me- What is a new learner? The great thing about SSiW is that you can find it on the net, read as much or little of the intro as you want and give it a go. In that way the course ‘sells’ itself on that experience - if it’s feeling like its working then just carry on. However when does someone stop being a new learner? - getting over lesson 4 for Ista perhaps, also lesson 7 on the old course has been mentioned. Or is it getting out and talking to somene, communicating however broken is your iaith (language). I suppose i am pushing at how long we need that new learner help before feeling some self confidence.

If you’ve been going for a while, what has helped you to keep going?
Real people, and other real people. The real people that i talk to face to face and the other real people - those on the forum. From the point of view of new learners it is important the forum is basically in English, with common welsh words. (noting all those here that English is a 2nd language)

What has made you want to give up?
Theres giving up and giving up. Another thread that said the Cymru government want a million knowing and speaking Cymraeg faces this. I can sit in the ute going to pick up my kids from somewhere and listen to the iaith and know more and more. The much harder part is talking to people. The more we promote the living part of language the better for moving from new learner and also learning quicker. Hearing people getting through that is good for us.

Did you find the most useful things early on in the course? If so, how? If not, what lead to your discovery?
The most useful thing i think was to be able to put together those basic dwi’n hoffi / dwi’n moyne ( i like / i want ) and be encouraged to try them out.

How could we help people more to get the most out of the courses?
The courses are gwech (great), so the encouragement your doing is plenty. I am not in touch with everything done here - like emails. What about conversation lessons? this is vocabulary though. eg Wyti’n moyne coffi?(do you want coffi) (pause for reply) after people have learnt i want/idont want. The vocab may be not what the plan of this course want though. ( i keep out of the whole linguistic side, but know what you do works for me)

How important is the social contact - the forum and the weekly email - to you?
The forum is key. Its great as I can log on, read the forum and succesfully put off the lesson !!

What is missing that you think might help?
I just want to switch this question round - what is missing that DOES help. What is missing is Cymraeg for Cymru. I think stuff put out by the government can be great, but its for those with a welsh postcode. I live in Awstralia. SSiW mob, almost without exception, welcome all. Regardless of where we are born, or live now, or who our parents are. Ffantastig. The aim is clearly to learn and use the language (and to access all the culture that that is an entry to). Happy enthusiam is catching.

Dal ati pawb (keep at it everyone)

Steve

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#22

Oh @Stevo! Division by a common langauge!! I read the above three times. Then I pronounced it in my head! “Oh!” I realised, “Of course! He’s an Aussie! It is a utility vehicle, a bit like a landrover probably, or a van with the back open so you can throw things in!” Perhaps even poor Caleb!! :laughing:

I loved that bit!! I do it all the time! :smile:

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#23

Thanks for that, @Stevo - your first paragraph has just blown my mind.

My first reaction was “What I mean by new learner is…” and go into my usual pep talk about us all being learners, and once you’ve done a lesson or two you’re a new speaker rather than just a learner.

Then I realised, of course, that’s possibly one of the most important things that we can do - make people realise that after lesson 1, you genuinely are speakers. You ask “How long do you need “new learner” help before feeling some self confidence?”, but actually, that’s the answer as well. A new learner needs new learner help until they have the self confidence to realise that they are no longer a “new learner” but a “new speaker”, so the new learner help should be that assertion, the encouragement of that realisation. Because once you believe that, you’re there. I’m going to finish my coffee and read that again to see if it’s profound or rambling…

And then in the same paragraph: [quote=“Stevo, post:21, topic:6441”]
you can find it on the net, read as much or little of the intro as you want and give it a go. In that way the course ‘sells’ itself on that experience - if it’s feeling like its working then just carry on.
[/quote]

If you are genuinely interested in learning Welsh (rather than just tyre kicking!), then we should be able to “sell” the first lesson to you (for free). If that works, and I firmly believe that there are very few people for whom the SSi way doesn’t work - then as long as you realise it works, there is no reason to not do one more lesson. The key then is not making it work (it already does), but making sure that people aren’t tricked by things like mistakes and bad memory into believing that it hasn’t worked.

And yes, your ute confused me as well, but I assumed it to be a typo, couldn;t work out what it would be, but it wasn’t important to the meaning anyway, so I ignored it (that’s the habit of reading too many French books, and ignoring stuff I don’t understand!). So - diolch yn fawr to @henddraig for teaching me some new English.

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#24

I didn’t @Iestyn bach, it’s Strine!!!
Actually (that’s very English) there has been an Aussie thriller/conspiracy/murder series on BBC4, and after I’d worked out ‘ute’ all by myself, I heard it on that!! I felt ever so good about that! Trying to find out what something in Welsh is through mutations and typos, has given me a taste for interpreting anything I come across and can’t immediately recognise!

#25

I still haven’t worked out what a ute is called in the UK. I know it’s not called a ute here, but I’ve seen a few about so they do exist. What are they called?

#26

Would that be a pick-up?

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#27

Really? I always thought that was an American expression.
Sorry Iestyn, we’ve gone a bit off topic here.

#28

I think it’s often just known as a truck, which I realise has ambiguities.

#29

If you’ve been going for a while, what has helped you to keep going?
I think being able to actually speak a language that I had just started learning was the biggest help in the beginning. Now what keeps me going is an interest in Welsh history and culture. My goal is to get Welsh to feel about as easy Italian. :sunny:

What has made you want to give up?
Nothing, really :smiley: I remember I had a lot of trouble remembering some words the first ~10 times they were used, which made me feel like I would never learn them like that, so I thought I’d try to learn them using the school “memorise-a-wordlist-by-heart” method (and then continue with SSiW). At some point, before starting to learn them by heart as a list, I noticed that I was actually learning them. It just didn’t feel like it. After that I started completely trusting the method and just kept pushing on even if I felt like I didn’t know any of the new words introduced in a lesson, which has worked really well for me :smile:

Did you find the most useful things early on in the course?
Yup, mostly! Mistakes are great, don’t use the pause button, don’t repeat lessons, set good goals! (oh, and talk to people and try intense days, but these I didn’t do at all until very late. I knew I should have, but I just didn’t)

The listening exercises were something I didn’t properly realise I should have been doing. I thought I was supposed to focus on and try to translate them. It felt difficult, so I kept putting them off until I had pretty much finished all the courses… At some point I realised I wasn’t supposed to understand everything at first and that I shouldn’t really try to translate the sentences, but by that time they felt too easy because I was listening to Radio Cymru. Then I did the new sped up listening exercises which were great :smile:

If so, how?
The emails. I was really confused (and too scared to ask on the forum), however, about why the emails were telling me not to repeat, use the pause button or worry about getting everything right when the intros of the lessons were encouraging me to do all of those things :'D Then I figured out that it was probably easier to fix something in an email than in an audio file, so I decided to follow the instructions from the emails because they should be more “up to date”.

If not, what lead to your discovery?
I think Aran’s blog post about the listening exercises was what really made me realise that I was supposed to actually just listen.

How could we help people more to get the most out of the courses?
I agree with everyone else on this one. I can’t think of anything to add :smiley:

How important is the social contact - the forum and the weekly email - to you?
It wasn’t that important to me at first, I was too scared to join in :blush: But now I spend a lot of time everyday reading the forum and it does feel pretty important. I don’t really need the weekly email because I’m here all the time, but I still enjoy it.

What is missing that you think might help?
A really easy way to find people to talk to in Welsh :smiley: Asking on the forum works, but, like others said, it would be great to have some sort of “instant chat” or Skype thing going on.

Reading other people’s comments, what has struck you as “wow, that looks useful”?
The instant chat thing!

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#30

It was in the evening news tonight, BBC1, so I think it is now English!!

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#31

Shwmae, @Novem? Thank you for your comment, which I haven’t seen until now! That is really useful, especially regarding the email and the fear of using the forum.

There is so much new in the SSIW method that I’m trying to get my head around a way of breaking people in more gently rather than the “Here’s a case chock full of goodies - Enjoy them!” approach, and these comments are really helping me to see what needs pushing and what seems to be looking after itself.

Diolch!

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