Gair neu Idiom y Diwrnod - Word or Idiom of the Day

A baptism of fire in the northern dialect. Much easier to understand at 2am than at 9pm. :beer::joy:

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In Welsh … when something afflicts your personal body… “ar” is the construction … however in North Wales it has become used with ‘gan’ … which came first? I am unsure

I’m not entirely 100% I’m following you here. Could you possibly give an example and I will try my best to help you out with your question :slight_smile:

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I’m taking it @brynle just meant which was the older usage – has gan supplanted an earlier ar in the North, or is southern ar an innovation and gan the older form? If so, I don’t know (and you may) – but I did look in my Middle Welsh grammar and it seems to suggest ar might be older. (But maybe that just means lots of MW texts are southern.)

“[Ar] is commonly used with the verb ‘to be’ to express a mental or physical condition [… e.g.] Nyt oes arnaf i ouyn cael kymriw ‘I do not fear to receive a wound’, Py drwc yssyd arnat ti ‘What ails thee?’”

(I think the modern equivalents, if not quite the idiomatic thing to say these days, would be something like Does arna’ i ddim ofn cael briw(?) and Pa ddrwg sy’ arnat ti? = Be’ sy’?)

The grammar doesn’t give anything comparable for gan, which it just talks about in terms of things like possessions.

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Diolch…just came back from a wedding in Llanelli and the younger under 40s I spoke do not use those “ar” phrases anymore sadly…Dwi angen (??) instead - welsh school system had standardised a lot of things

Mae chwant bwyd arna i … type phrases were alien to them

Yes the school system is great in so many ways, but standardisation of the language is really not a very Celtic way of going about things (it’s almost a very French way of thinking even). If we do lose all those lovely natural nuances and regional differences then I suspect there will be less daily speakers as a consequence and the language will suffer and be much less colourful.

There is a very formal standard form of Welsh for high brow stuff, documents and all the rest and that’s good enough, but no-one actually speaks that version, because it’s unnatural and old fashioned.

Thank you for your detailed explanation @RichardBuck!

To be honest, I’m not really sure what the right answer is, It would be something I would have to research in to. Funny, being a first language speaker, I often take so much for granted and don’t really question things in the same way. If I have any light bulb moments I will let you know!

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Word of the Day 17/09/2018

Amgen = am-gen (g as in Green and boGGle not as in Gentleman)
Amgenach = am-gen-ach

Amgen means alternative.
Amgenach means other or different / a better alternative / preferred alternative / superior choice.

Amgen as in ‘Canolfan Technoleg Amgen’ / Centre For Alternative Technology in Machynlleth.

Amgenach as in ‘opsiwn amgenach’ / a better alternative.

Sound file -

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Amgen is a good one to know.

But a small question - dictionaries can be confusing for us learners as you look for 'alternative’ and gets lots of nuance! … Cartref cyfatebol for instance XD … Would it matter if I said Cartref amgen?

No, it wouldn’t matter at all if you said Cartref Amgen - you would be perfectly understood.

These fairly modern terms outlined above often come from professional translators who are looking to create new words and phrases, whilst translating official documents and websites from English to Welsh. As technology advances the Welsh vocabulary grows.

So the above terms are perfectly correct and ‘official’ and you would probably chose to use them when writing, particularly in formal communication, or for instance when writing an essay. But in a conversation I would naturally gravitate towards the familiar, and like you say cartref amgen.

Hope this helps.

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It’s fine – I know the way it goes. Ask first language English speakers questions about the history of English and unless they’re actually academics who work on the subject they’re going to find large gaps to be filled either by an honest “I’m not sure” or by less honest guesswork. Plus things like “but everyone says it like that, don’t they?” [i.e. I do], the recency illusion (“lately people seem to have started saying…” – checks OED and finds first reference is from 1700), and “it’s probably an Americanism” (when actually it’s British… and started in 1700). :slight_smile:

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That’s interesting. Would you include colds coughs, temper etc in that. My daughter, who is just 40 and hasn’t lived in Wales for a number of years still says Valleys stuff like “he has a temper on him” in English.

Word of the Day 18/09/2018

Barn = This has a short a sound as in Barricade and not as in Barbara
Beirniad = bairn (like the Scottish bairn) -yad
Beirniadu = bairn (like the Scottish bairn) -yad-ee
Beirniadaeth = bairn (like the Scottish bairn) -yad-eye-th
Beirniadaethol = bairn (like the Scottish bairn) -yad-eye-thol

Barn means opinion/judgement/verdict

Beirniad means judge/adjudicator/critic

Beirniadu means to judge/adjudicate/criticise

Beirniadaeth means judgement/adjudication/criticism

Beirniadaethol means judgemental

Sound file -

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First I want to thank you for creating Gair y Diwrnod. I enjoy learning the new words. This is the only Geiriadur Cymraeg that I know of with the spelling, the meaning, written pronunciation AND spoken pronunciation of each word. It has been very useful for me.

Secondly, it has inspired me to create a personal dictionary. Still in the early phases, but it will consist of verbs, nouns and verbnouns of things/activities I do every day. When I cook for my family, what are the words for all the cooking utensils, food items, actions. Or when we are in the living room playing games, watching TV, telling stories. I expect it will contain between 300-400 words. I really believe this will immensely expand my vocabulary and capacity for the language.

Lastly, my question for this thread. Beirniad - could this be a film critic (beirniad ffilm), too.

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[Oh, look, so many threads I hadn’t even noticed yet! And more vocabulary is what I was looking for!] :smiley:

Two questions about today word, right away. :grin:

  • Is the “d” sounding like a “t” a Northern thing, or always happens, with these words?
  • is it related to “farn” as in “unryw farn”? (that seems to mean “any judgement” and/or “no judgement” from my research)

‘Unrhyw farn’ would be ‘any opinion’… :slight_smile:

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I actually think I can answer this question. Anyone, if I’m wrong please correct me. Yes, “farn” is “barn” with a soft mutation. Nouns after “unrhyw” undergo a soft mutation.

How I’m familiar with “barn” is with the “opinion expressing phrase, “Yn fy marn I”. In my opinion. After 'fy” nouns and verb-nouns undergo a nasal mutation.

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Thank you @delawarejones for your kind words! I am so pleased that this thread has become such an useful resource! Please let me know if there are any themes you would like me to introduce? You mention cooking above - I’m always open to suggestions!

Ffilm critic would be adolygwr ffilm. **Adolygwr comes from the word adolygu which means to review. So adolygwr would be reviewer and adolygiad would be a review. :slight_smile:

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@delawarejones is right, this is a soft mutation. :slight_smile:

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Word of the day 19/09/2018

Adolygu = add-all-ugg-ee
Adolygiad = add-all-ugg-yad
Adolygwr = add-all-ugg-oorr

Adolygu means to review or revise.

Adolygiad means a review or revision.

Adolygwr means reviewer.

Adolygiad llyfr would be book review.

Adolygu ar gyfer arholiadau would be revising for exams.

Sound file -

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