It’s very interesting to hear both your experiences with Duolingo. I was excited to try it because it seems to me that many people are very enthusiastic about it. It is fun, but I can’t really judge effectiveness yet since (1) I know most of what the course is teaching in the units I’ve done thus far, and (2) it’s only the first day. I will continue to use it and see if it is worthwhile for me. I’ve also been using Memrise, and I find that new vocabulary learned that way doesn’t stick well until I use those words on my own repeatedly (conversations in my head, writing in my journal, etc.) As I worked with DuoLingo today, I found myself thinking about the way Memrise does repetition and wondering if DuoLingo would have some similar method. Because if there is only haphazard repetition, that doesn’t bode well for me. I totally agree that SSiW is the best way to learn, and my retention of that material is excellent.
(On a side note, I’ve been sorta trying to teach myself the nasal mutations from a book (because I keep trying to write “my [something]” in my journal), and those aren’t sticking AT ALL. Today I told myself to stop being ridiculous and just wait for the SSiW lessons (I’m in the middle of Course 2 and I know they are coming toward the end). I KNOW they’ll stick when I do them with SSiW!!)
This is how I use Memrise, and how I would envision using DuoLingo - in bits of time where I wouldn’t be doing SSiW.
It just told me I was WRONG!
Paid becso, Tatjana - After all these months of using moyn, mae rhywbeth gyda fi, sa i’n, etc, I won’t stop being a “Southern” girl at heart
Well, I wouldn’t want to think that anyone discounted Duolingo based just on my comments. Their formula for controlling spaced repetition is certainly not random or arbitrary, but I do think that it is not as effective as it could be. And their methodology for altering their formula is based more on counting logins than on evaluating real learning results. I also wish that the lessons would build on each other more than they do. As it stands the lessons are mostly standalone, with little interleaving of skills. Also, the practical structure of the site makes long sentences impractical, so the “head-spinning-like-a-merry-go-round” effects we are used to from the SSiW levels just don’t happen.
But the more recent Duolingo courses are better than the older ones, so maybe there is room for improvement within their structure. But they absolutely will never rival SaySomethingIn in making a person a natural speaker.
In my experience so far, Duolingo is at its best when it is reminding you of things you already know and helping you drill on them. As such, it really has to be used with other resources, otherwise it is just a time sink.
The good news I believe after following the SSiW Level 2 Challenges is that I am finding them even more effective than the prior SSi courses which were excellent;This does make me think that SSi have put a lot of thought into the effectiveness of language acquisition.
I really can’t wait for the next evolution if Level 3 is going to continue this trend.
And then there is the SSi 4k project to imprint a four thousand word vocabulary within dialogues. If the project succeeds in helping us surpass a vocabulary of 2,000 words even I for one will be in heaven,
I find Duolingo’s daily reminder function, and the encouragement to build up a ‘streak’ of learning days really useful. Earning ‘Lingots’ to spend in the ‘Lingot store’ is also a nice feature for encouragement.
I’m using it to learn German, and having never studied German before it’s hard to say whether the content is up to much.
Are you doing the spaced reviews that Duolingo automatically prescribes by making your skill bubbles lose strength? EVERYTHING should be regularly reviewed if you do that. The courses aren’t really designed to give direct vocabulary repetition as you’re going through them, instead relying on you to perform the necessary reviews, and giving you a visual queue to do so.
I would make a similar complaint, however, that certain things inevitably are underemphasized. For example, in the Irish tree, there is only one skill bubble each for the genitive case and the conditional mood. Each of these require a lot more practice than this can provide, esp. the genitive where Irish nouns have separate unpredictable forms that must be learned individually.
My personal experience has been very positive with Duolingo. I simply would not be an Irish-speaker were it not for Duolingo. I’m excited now to have the same chance to use it for Welsh. But it’s very important to make Duolingo just one tool. Duolingo provides exposure to the basics of grammar and vocabulary that enable you to engage with the language outside of the course. Progress to good levels in any language requires more than just doing Duolingo.
I’ve been using Duolingo for a while to revise languages I’ve previously learnt but not used for ages. I enjoy it because it’s a fun game and I like testing myself. I tried learning a couple of new languages with it, but also found that I didn’t retain it very well. I could remember the words while sitting doing Duolingo, but ask me half an hour later and I’d forgotten. I didn’t supplement the learning with anything else though as I was testing out the Duolingo method and seeing how effective it was on its own. My opinion is that it’s very motivating and a fun way of learning but you definitely need something else.
Turning to the Welsh beta that’s there, I find the computerised voice makes me cringe at times, but it’s not too bad I suppose. It could be confusing for early learners with SSiW, especially those doing the southern course, as it tries to stick to more ‘standard’ Welsh which means that it ends up sounding more like traditional ‘classroom Welsh’ rather than how people really speak to a certain extent, but if it can increase a worldwide interest in Welsh and then we can encourage those people to polish up their spoken skills by using SSiW we could see a boom in Welsh speakers around the world!
PS - I’ve ‘friended’ everyone that has put their Duolingo username here. Mine is KiwiCymraeg
This would be great. I also agree with @jeffanderson that I personally find Duolingo at its most useful when I am drilling something I already know. Then the fun takes over. Having said this, I’m still experimenting and particularly in languages where SSi dialogues do not yet exist - though I wish for a universe where SSi dialogues are easily available for every language;
I have found Duolingo good for vocabulary and reminding me of things, and contrary to other people find I remember the vocabulary very well, but I guess everyone learns in different ways, and finds different things more or less effective.
100% I think SSIW is far superior in getting you to speak, but having more tools in learning a language is good.
I have never used Duolingo for a language I have no experience of, so don’t know how it would fare with no prior experience in the language
Yes, I’m pretty sure I’m using the system as designed, doing the reviews as the skills decay.
I think that the basic methodology of spaced repetition is quite sound, but have found that their implementation doesn’t seem to be as effective as it could be, that’s all. I have a lot of ideas about why that may be, but this probably isn’t the place for that discussion. I think there’s a lot more thought and science behind the way the SSi lessons are crafted, and it shows in their effectiveness.
I’ve noticed a number of spontaneous plugs for SSiW on the Duolingo forums. People often exchange such recommendations there. So I’m hopeful we may see some new folks coming here to see what SSiW is all about. If so, it’s a good thing.
SSiW is listed as the first option for further learning in the ‘official’ Notes page on the forum!
Under
A whole language programme? / Rhaglen iaith gyflawn?
Duolingo can get you really far on your journey to speaking Cymraeg every day, but if you really want to immerse yourself and become fluent even faster, then there are a few extra things that you can do as well as studying with Duolingo:
Use the SaySomethingInWelsh courses which are available for free and in both North and South Walian version.
Now that I’ve been using Duolingo for a few days, I am starting to see how it does the spaced repetition by the loss of “strength bars”. I agree with all of you who have said that it is a good tool to revise things that you already know, and that it needs to be just one tool in the toolbox. I don’t think I’d want to start learning a totally new language with Duolingo as my primary source…but then again, I guess I should reserve judgement since it’s still early days. I’m finding it interesting to deal with with some of the forms of bod which are not the same as those taught in the Southern SSiW course. Expanding my horizons
I think it’s fantastic that SSiW is getting plugs there!
And, @stella contributing to SSiRussian - how cool is that!
It’ll teach you some standard Welsh, I think, more than Gog. The develops are certainly not Gogs and they’ve already had some backlash for Duolingo not being gog enough! Gosh, Welsh is messy, isn’t it! I say that as a native speaker and teacher, btw.
I feel very proud that Duolingo has launched Welsh ahead of many other languages. Wales and the Welsh language deserve all the marketing they can get - and I think the Duolingo launch is great marketing for the Welsh language;.
SSiW is my firm choice for being conversational in Welsh but the more support for the Welsh language the better,
I thought there was no such thing as standard Welsh, because
Absolutely! But when it starts making me crazy, I remind myself that English must be a nightmare as a second language.
In the end, it doesn’t matter what’s “southern” or “standard” or “Gog”. I can use “dych chi” on Duolingo even if that’s not what I say. I just need to be familiar with variations so I can understand. For example, I am really not used to the “o” instead of “e/fe” for “he” - when I started watching “Rownd a Rownd” with the Welsh subtitles on, I suddenly realized that sentences I thought I totally didn’t understand were actually just a “version” I am not used to hearing.
Absolutely! But when it starts making me crazy, I remind myself that English must be a nightmare as a second language.