In the old course we learned “dal i gredu,” and in the new challenge 1 I think we learned “dal yn moyn.” In this thread, New course 1 differences, Aran suggested that most verbs would follow a “dwi’n dal i” structure but moyn forces the change to “dwi dal yn moyn.”
My brain decided it likes the sound of “dwi dal yn verb” more then the other construction, so that is what I default to. Is anyone going to bat an eyelash if I keep doing it, or is this something I should try to correct? I googled both structures and came up with a few examples of “dal yn,” but I’m not sure if they were from other learners.
I’m pretty sure there are grammatical rules that govern when to use either dal yn or dal i, but I don’t know what they are, to be honest, and I’m certain that if you examine real world usage by real world Welsh speakers you’ll see the rules broken all of the time.
So I’d go with the no-one batting an eyelid thing. Sure, you may come across grammar enthusiasts who might wince, but they’re so few and far between that it’s really not worth worrying about.
And the most important thing is, by not worrying and just carrying on using and enjoying your Welsh, you will subtly and without even trying, start to pick up those natural ways of speaking (“is it i or is it yn? - I’ve never really thought about it!”) that first language people take for granted.
"I’m pretty sure there are grammatical rules that govern when to use either dal yn or dal i, but I don’t know what they are, to be honest, "
Well, apparently it is
Dal i + verbnoun
Dal yn + adjective
(Moyn exception, unless it is a noun rather than a verbnoun. It’s a strange, strange word… ;-))
I think!!!
Glad to be of help, I’m sure you felt completely at a loss without that information! ( if that information is correct, of course…)
Important to remember Rob Bruce’s words
“I’m certain that if you examine real world usage by real world Welsh speakers you’ll see the rules broken all of the time.”
But personally I find little bits of information like this to be useful in sometimes helping me look out for patterns in the language when I am talking to someone, to see how often particular bits of grammar tend to be kept to when they are used, or even if they are used at all!
The subconscious way of picking language up is the lion’s share of learning (in my view!), but little bits like this do help me. Doesn’t mean they will help everyone, of course!
Just about sums up my feelings. if i stop to think about grammar i get more confused, but
these small explanations now and again are useful, it’s just one of many ways the forum is
so helpful.
Cheers J.P.
I asked around regarding “dal i” and “dal yn”, because my default is “dal yn… mynd / moyn / rhedeg / chwerthin”… and I have a sneaking suspicion that it may not be grammatically correct. The general opinon amongst northerners was “Absolutely not…” and the general opinon amongst southerners was “umm… no, I think that’s fine…”
In other words, I think it’s dialect, and others think its dialect, but I haven’t read that officially anywhere.
( if that information is correct, of course…)