Construction (direct or no) after "ddim"

Demat (breton for Bore da)
I’m asking some help to undersatand why sometimes he vergb foolowin “ddim” arrives directyl, and sometimes it needs “yb” before.
Example : “Wnes i ddim cysgu”; BUT “Dw 'i ddim yn rhoi”
Is it a question of temps (here, past or present ?)
Anaother question wouuld concerne the verb “licio”. I find it very close to english “like”, don’t like the writing, neither the sound, and much more prefer “hoffi”. Would I look like a desperate old fashioned speaker when using “hoffi” (hoffi iawn, etc) instead of “licio” :smiley:
Diolch eto !

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It’s not to do with tense, it’s to do with what we call “long-form” and “short-form”. In the first sentence you are using “short-form” (which is where you don’t use any form of the verb ‘bod’ - e.g., here you are using a short-form of construction with the verb gwneud. These short-forms (i.e. sentences that start with a verb other than bod), don’t need an ‘yn’ before the next verb.
In the second sentence, you are using “long-form” (which is where you do use a form of bod) - i.e. ‘dw i’, which is a form of bod, and these long-forms (i.e. sentences that start with a form of bod) do need an ‘yn’ before the next verb.

As for licio / hoffi - both are perfectly acceptable so it’s fine to use hoffi if that’s the one you prefer :slight_smile:


Aaaah; at last I understand this affair of construction after ddim. Thank you very very much Siaron !!! It was not obvious when no explanations and when I don’t understand something, it blocks me to go on !!! Diolch yn fawr !


Relative clauses as in Level 1 lessons 14, 15 etc are confusing me too! “someone who…” appears as ‘rhywun sy’ , ‘rhywun oedd’ and ‘rhywun - ddudodd’ in quick succession without explanations. Can someone please explain this grammar quagmire?

Someone will be able to give more details and explanation, but the simplified way I memorized them is:

rhywun sydd yn/sy’n = followed by/linking sentence in present tense
rhywun oedd = followed by/linking sentence in past tense
rhywun ddudodd (that I believe it’s the Northern course equivalent of ddwedodd) = followed by/linking sentence with the verb “to tell”/past tense

Bore da. I’m coming back to the “ddim affair”…
From the beginning of the lessons, we are asked to take care about “no N” infront of eisiau, or angen. Having no explaination for that, I could understand (or guess, at least), that it was because Eisiau and Angen begun with a voyel.
So, indeed, with the future (Bydda) I had not surprise hearing " Fydda i ddim yn tria" and “Fydda i ddim eisiau” (or angen…) I thought : “voyal = no yn”)

BUT, alas… I also hear Fydda i ddim YN aros
So : what is the rule (and of course, its exceptions… :smirk:) for this “yn or not yn” after ddim, concerning the futur ?
Well, once this said, I think that staying with “mynd i”, when a beginner, is enough, and so I’ll stay with it. But I would llike to understand, anyway…
So, once more : diolch yn fawr !

It has nothing to do with verbs beginning with vowels or to do with tenses, but is simply because eisiau and angen are some of the verbs that don’t go with yn - though I must admit I can’t remember why at the moment and I don’t have my reference books here with me at work to look it up, but I’ll try and remember to look when I get home if no-one else has explained before then.

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And anyway, I see that for me it rarely makes a difference knowing why, as long as I’ve got an expression or word in automatic gear, so I just know how to use it!

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Thank you very much Siarnoa, and please don’t go and look for the reason why.
Tthat does not mean that I don’t care, it’s all the contrary, I like very much to understand why things are what they are, especially in linguistic : it helps a lot not making errors when using anoher vocabulay than the one you are learnt in the method.
But in this case I’m afraid the reason would need a rather technical linguistical arguying, probably refeering to old Welsh or things like that, and I would be unable to understand.

I just regret that Aran, instead of saying “did you notice that once more, there i no “N” in front of… ?” would not just say that angen and eisiau don’t work like the other verbs,but for any orther verb, you may use the Y (or Yn))". Without this very basic explaination, when trying to say things with another vocabulary that SSIW lessons, we are wondering "“ah, here should I use the Yn or no”. But if you know that only Angen and Eiseiau work that way, well, easy, you stop wondering.
I understand the choice of not introducing “pure grammar” in the lessonsn, but in this case, this would not be “grammar”, just a precision easy to give, and easy tu use…
So… diolch in fawr eto, Siarona !!!

You’re very welcome! There are a couple of others that don’t use yn but eisiau and angen are the two you’ll probably come across most frequently.

I’m going to take a stab at this. ‘Yn’ is used with bod. Wnes is gwneud so doesn’t use yn.

It has nothing to do with long vs. short form. “Wnes i ddim cysgu” is actually long form as well. Long form is inflected auxillary + uninflected verbnoun. Short form is inflected verb with no auxillary. Wnes = inflected gwneud as auxillary. Cysgu = uniflected verbnoun.

Eisiau and angen don’t take yn because they aren’t actually verbs. They’re nouns. In the North they are used like verbs but without yn. In the South eisiau is used as a noun for ‘need’. Mae eisiau i fi… (There is a need for me…)

Thanks again Siaron (I apologize for “Siarona” !) and thanks also Craig. Each answer is full of precious informations. Very interesting; doplch yn far eto. I know that my level is very weak for interesting me to such details, but I find so exciting the richness of a tongue, and why things are what they are ! That’s why I’m curious of knowing, even if of course that won’t currently be of big use for me But the informations go into a notebook, and I love reading those things from time to time. And some day I hope I use all those precious things you give me !
Diolch yn fawr !!!. :heart::orange_heart::green_heart:

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