Coeden eirin (plural) or coeden eirinen?

Welsh General / Questions
#1

Am I correct in thinking that whereas in English we would say ’ a plum tree’ in Welsh the plural is correct eg. ‘coeden eirin’, ‘coeden gellyg’ and so on?

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#2

Coeden is the singular - coed is the plural (and can also mean a wood - a stand of trees).

It’s common in welsh, particularly in words for the natural world, for the plural to be the ‘common’, shorter, form and for the singular to be the ‘exceptional’, longer word. This is particularly true for things that naturally are found in groups rather than as individuals.

Examples are, as we have seen coeden/coed, also pysgodyn/pysgod, llygoden/llygod, derwen/derw etc.

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#3

I think that I didn’t put my question quite correctly Rob. It was the mixture of the singular ‘coeden’ with the plural such as ‘eirin’ that I was wondering about. Where in English it would be ‘plum tree’, would it, in Welsh be a mix of similar singular and plural e.g. ‘tree + plums /coeden eirin’ or coeden eirinen.
Hope this is a bit clearer.

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#4

Oh. Hang on. I think I misunderstood your question. Sorry.

If you’re asking do we say “tree (of) plums” rather than “tree (of) plum”, the answer is generally yes, though you would never be misunderstood if you got it ‘wrong’. This works across the language, by the way, not just for trees - siop anifeiliaid anwes (pets shop) for example.

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#5

Thanks Rob. Seems like our ‘corrections’ crossed in the post. All is clear now. Thanks very much for your help.

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#6

So, for pig farm, ‘fferm moch’??

#7

Yup.

#8

Or more likely fferm foch because fferm is usually feminine - like siop deganau toy shop (and indeed fferm wynt wind farm, come to think of it) :slight_smile:

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#9

Diolch yn fawr, I am terrible at remembering to ‘sex’ non-living things! If I first came across them clearly mutated like y gegin, fine, but, sob :sob: fferm does not mutate!!! If only the first farm I met had been a pig farm!!

#10

Although it does sort of look feminine anyway…don’t you think? If you look hard enough at it for long enough.

I definitely used to get my students to do exactly that as an exercise… :slight_smile:

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#11

Giggle… :wink: but, to be absolutely honest, it depends on the farm!! I knew a fferm hwyaid (a gwyddau) which seemed very feminine, but the ffermydd gwartheg were very butch!

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#12

Not fferm wyntoedd, interestingly, which just feels all sorts of wrong for reasons I couldn’t explain.

#13

Yes - presumably because it’s the meteorological phenomenon and not specific winds…

#14

The “mistral” deepens. :laughing:

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