Bonus lesson 6 - South

@Iestyn Thanks for this one, it is hilarious! It’s extremely hard to speak Welsh while laughing! Giraffes and monkeys indeed! Someday I’m going to know if you are speaking real Welsh at lightning speed or are saying Welsh-ified mumbo jumbo :slight_smile:

I’ll admit I had to go peek at the written course guide because even the part we are supposed to be learning sounds quite fast to me. I’m a bit confused about “that’s how it is”. I hear you saying something that sounds phonetically like “ve-chee m-eye” with the Welsh “ch” sound in there, but the written form in the guide is “Fel 'na mae”. No “ch” to be seen, and I don’t hear anything like an “n” sound. I could be completely wrong, but clarification would be appreciated.

I think I’ll keep coming back to this one every now and then, instead of trying to get these phrases 100% before I go to Gwers 7. I feel like I understand the material in 6-1 and 6-2 just fine, but I can’t say the sentences quickly enough. No way can I say them without pausing on all but the simpler sentences, But I do get them mostly right. I don’t know if I should try to develop more speed before going forward, or just press on…

Diolch yn fawr!

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(Sorry @AnnaC me again. I hope I didn’t interrupt the flow of the topic though.)

Did you see? I’ve told you it’s fun!

Speed will come with practice so don’t hold you back too long.

I didn’t even pay attention how ti’s written though. I hear something like that “Fel” would be written as “Fell” and I presumed that’s why that “shi” (or whatever it’s phonetically written in English) sound. I just pressed on with what I’ve heard and said it.

Oh, well, and it’s bonus lesson which you didn’t need to do but I’m glad you did. I’m almost sorry in Course 2 isn’t one of its kind too. :slight_smile:

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I’m with @tatjana, I think it’s the ‘ll’ sound. Kind of a wet sounding ‘sh’.

English has nothing even close. :wink: In my notes, I use an underscored sh.

Yes I know. My trouble here is we in Slovene language have totally different way of writing phonetics. If I say Hour for example I’ll pronounce it in Slovene as “awr”. I’ve seen in English many things are written phonetically quite differently then in Slovene so I’m quite puzzled sometimes how to explain something when asked (in written messages) how to say things.

But, I don’t do notes in Cymraeg. I’m just listening and trying to say. Once wrong, twice wrong … over and over again until it’s right one day.

My God! I only now becams aware I didn’t do any single note for any SSiW lesson. Is it good or normal at all? :slight_smile:

Okay, I can buy that it’s “ll” instead of “ch”…but there’s only one L in “Fel 'na mae”…?

And, yes, “ll” is tricky…I have to be really careful because I hear Iestyn’s “ll” as “sh” (but not Cat’s) and if I"m not careful I’ll make a “sh” sound…which doesn’t put my tongue where it’s supposed to be. So I make myself think about what I’m doing with my tongue every single time I say “gallu” and “llaeth”. Sometimes I walk around the house when no one’s home and practice :slight_smile:

I’m very visual so I often picture whatever phonetics I’ve come up with while I’m speaking, at least early on. I don’t do it on purpose, it’s just the way my brain seems to work, until it starts to stick. I don’t write them down, though.

Diolch to you both for your responses!

“gallu” is easy but “lleath” is a bit harder.

Hmmm, my tongue is everywhere when I say “lleath” and the sound could be whatever inbetween “sh” and kind of “shl” thingy. I was frustrated with such things at first but now it is becomming a fun. There will be more and more words with this Cymraeg specific sound “ll” and I dare to say for us, learners every single word will sound differently. So just say what you can the best and it’ll be OK.

I personally am saying sentences in which those words appear as quick as I can not even thinking about where my tongue is and what to do with it and mostly I can get quite (well not entirely though, I’d lie if I’d say that) right sound, depending on word and the structure of sentence.

Not sure what’s going on with the lesson guide but, that does not at all match what I hear. I would suggest ignoring it.

I find with the ‘ll’ sound, that the tendency is to move the tongue off the ‘l’ position too soon. It’s then that this extra ‘l’ creeps in. When saying llaeth, keep the tongue on the roof of your mouth as you pronounce the vowel, then slide it into the ‘th’ position. I find this works well for me.

[quote=“AnnaC, post:1, topic:2683”]
“that’s how it is”
[/quote] would be “felly mae”, so the written form is not quite correct, I’d say.


That’s what I thought but didn’t want to say …

Oh, more or less I’m mooving tongue too much of th position so it comes out more like softened “s” many times.

Hmmm … for the fun of mine I’ll gather some of those words and record them. I really have to hear myself speaking those things. :slight_smile:

Interesting - probably a glitch in the Aran > Iestyn translation. I’m pretty sure the northern course says “felly mae”, but I would normally say “Fel 'na mae”. I wonder if I’ve stuck with the northern script while doing the elsson, but cintrbuted a southernism to the written guide?

The problem with that is that it’s quite likely that next time I’ll use Fel 'na mae in a lesson, and all the southern learners wills ay “Hey? Where did that come from?”


Meh … that shouldn’t be such a problem. If I’ve got used to differences, moaning all the time, then the others surely will adjust easily then me. :slight_smile:

“Fel 'na mae”. Hmmm how does it sounds. I’ve adopted “Felly mae” already and it’s fun producing that “ll” sound. It always sounds different when I try to say it. :slight_smile:

“Felly mae”…that matches what I’m hearing! Thanks, Louis!

Iestyn, I’ll listen to see if you say it differently as I go along. I guess now I know how to say something Northern :smile:

Tatjana, I think it’s much easier to say “llaeth” than it is to say “gallu”…funny how we are all different!

Craig, I’ve been thinking my tongue stays up too long…when I say “gallu”, I feel like I still have the shh sound going while I’m making the final vowel sound. I just need to keep practicing. I’m sure I’ll get better with time!

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Felly fesul gair bydd y Gogledd yn cymryd drosodd y byd

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Eto … - hehe :slight_smile:

Apropos of nothing, we came across the saying fel 'na mae i a fel 'na fydd hi at Bootcamp last year.I thought of it as being an equivalent to que sera sera



That was my initial reaction too, but it turned out to be the opposite. But again, we’re all different so you may indeed be holding it too long. And as you say, practice is key. It takes a while to master this sound.