@aran nice analogy!
So what exactly is the ideal plan then, how do I become a forest master?
I am going to start level 2 tomorrow and hopefully I will be able to continue at the same pace. Should I re-visit level 1 at any point (I suspect not) or just keep going?
And what happens when I reach the end of level 2 - apart from my head exploding?
There’s the tourist course.
By the time you’ve done course 2 it’ll seem a breeze.
Mon 17 Aug: challenges 23, 24 and 25 done!
Very hard, lots of new stuff but the earlier stuff is definately getting easier and much faster to recall. Still can’t actually finish any long sentences though!
25 is done - well, that was an interesting journey! I’m not sure my head knows what hit it?
Yay! level 1 in the bag - woop, woop!
You keep on doing exactly what you’re doing! 
(Happy to go into more detail when I get back from holidays next week…;-)).
More details…that would be good @aran
Progress: Tues 18 Aug level 2 challenge 1 & 2 done. Definately easier than level 1 challenge 25, which is a relief…
I’ve starred this to try to remind myself - if I haven’t commented in more detail by the end of next week, have a shout at me…
@aran heres your shouty reminder - I still wish to be a master of trees!!
Please explain how oh wise one
Ooh, that was a big miss, wasn’t it?! Thanks for shouting now… 
So, to master the trees - you need to break up the way in which you approach them. If you only ever go through them in order, you’ll never be able to deal with them out of order (what happens with most traditional approaches is that you go through them in order until eventually you start trying to have conversations, and then you go through the pain of dealing with them out of order via the conversations - which of course makes those conversations much tougher, which is why so many people really struggle with the step from learning -> using the language).
The two key elements here are interleaving to break up the order (here’s a good place to start finding out more about interleaving: http://gocognitive.net/interviews/benefits-interleaving-practice) and then spaced repetition to deal with the memory formation - all, ideally, in an environment of what Dr Robert Bjork refers to as ‘desirable difficulties’, which for me (in the context of language acquisition) is the challenge of producing the spoken language.
In other words, keep working through our materials, which have been specifically built to address all those points…
I’ve just found myself reading this entire topic!! I must admit I’m not anywhere near as dedicated, but I feel this topic is a must read for new users 
If there’s a ‘new users hall of fame’ this could be a sticky topic; I had my popcorn out and 3D glasses by the end! 
I feel emotionally invested in your journey Clare ha, your highs and lows are all totally relatable!
^This particularly raised a smile as it’s what we’re all thinking!
The world needs to hear how you got on??
Did @Clare ever navigate the desirable difficulties to become a forest master ?
Did @aran persuade her to continue using the force for good ( 
), or did she return to her native ways ( 
)?
Or… cue dramatic pause - did she turn to the dark side (welsh)??
Ojala, we’ll all find out pronto!!
T x
(P.S (Sí, hoy es un día lento…)
You are too kind 
Thank you for making my confusion and floundering sound soooo much more interesting than it was 
I was still plodding through the trees blindly but with Xmas I’m afraid that the whole Spanish learning thing has pretty much come to a halt - not to mention not having an Internet connection for THREE WEEKS whilst I moved house - I was not a happy bunny!! And I couldn’t download any challenges until I got my Internet connection back last week!!
I am up to Challenge 15 on level 2 and hoping to resume my studies next week and download the rest of level 2 (not that I can afford it now with my new house purchase but I’ll find the pennies somewhere!) …so still not a forest master but slowly working on it.
@tolu thanks for the reminder and don’t tell @aran but looking forward to getting back to it - I kinda missed it!
Congrats on the house move, and Christmas is important, as well as rests I’m sure. Bet you’ll find once you’re back in loads of it has stuck too. I’m plodding intermittently and in a constant state of surprise at what my brain has locked away.
Apparently, if we keep hacking and slashing at the trees for long enough, before we know it we’ll be forest masters.
Well, that’s what the movies tell me. It worked for Luke and ObiWan at least 
Best of luck!
That is absolutely the truth…
Right here is my current log of progress so far (I keep a diary becuase I am sad):
I was up to level 2 challenge 15 when Xmas and a house move interrupted my learning schedule so I shall recap my progress from 1 - 14 from my diary notes.
Up to challenge 5 on level 2 were ok and I didn’t find them too difficult.
6 was fairly easy but the second half of 7 is harder. Introduces “nos aseguramos” and other complicated “los”, “nos” variables 
8, 9, 10 & 11 were hard but not impossible - knew some of the words and difficult sentence constructions. Difficult to say it fast enough or even think it fast enough
10 is a good review lesson - covers some level 1 stuff - I was finding this very difficult at this point.
12, 13 & 14 I found these very, very difficult and I keep forgetting los & nos BEFORE verbs! Also still mucking up fue/fueron/etc!!! Some of the things I can’t even say!
I did laugh when I read my diary entry for challenge 15, all I had written was "I was rubbish 
"!
So that’s my progress so far and I wonder whether to go back to 7 where I started to find it difficult or just plod on from 15 after such a long break?
Keeping track in a diary form is hugely valuable…
I’d go for this - the whole los/nos thing is a distraction which won’t have any real effect on your ability to communicate - and if the sessions weren’t stretching you, it’d mean they weren’t challenging enough. 7 will still be there once you’ve got to 25 - although by then you’ll probably be surprised how ‘easy’ it has become…
I shall plod on then @aran !
I have done level 2 challange 15 again just to recap and then 16, and 17 today. And now my head REALLY hurts!
15 was actually OK after all this time I was suprised at how much I remembered.
16 was ok but 17 was difficult - very difficult. Lots of new stuff…I struggled to take it all in.
Good to be back though (kinda missed that head hurting feeling at the end of each sesson) and looking forward to finally finishing level 2!
Any plans for a level 3?
Great, that’s a good sign that you’re forming new synapses…
The framework is already in place - so it’s just a matter of getting the translation and production work done - which we’re going to leave until we’ve run through doing L3 Welsh, just to make sure that we get the wrinkles ironed out. But L3 Welsh should be fully scripted by the end of March, so an April start for L3 Spanish looks likely…
Supercalifragilisticexpialodocious 
Justin
Yesterday I managed to drag myself through 18, 19 & 20.
I didn’t manage even half of 18 but I kept on going regardless. 19 was even harder and about 2 mins into 20 I stopped, had a break and then ploughed through challenge 20 but I really struggled and only got the odd word right here and there.
At this point I called it a day - any pleasure of returning to Spanish had thoroughly gone by this point!
When you say ‘didn’t manage even half’ - do you mean you got less than 50% of the answers ‘right’? Don’t worry about that - I’ve seen people progress successfully even down at about 10% correct…
The main issue here sounds like tiredness - as though you hit a wall with 20, if you were getting about 1 or 2% - and I certainly wouldn’t recommend that you push on through that kind of exhaustion. Much better to leave it for a few days and then have another shot - because, as you’ve found, trying to push through the wall just makes anyone feel miserable.
Well it seems your experience @aran was right (as ever!). I left it a few days and then yesterday, Friday 25 March, I managed to squeeze in 3 more.
Challenge 21 was complicated but I felt like it just needs lots of practice!
22 is even harder - lots of complicated sentence structures and changes of tenses.
23 - a few new bits but the complexity of the sentences is much worse and if I ever manage this one I’ll be happy.
Seems that my brain was happier this time and the break for a few days definitely helped. No meltdowns this time - yay!
If I can ever manage these 3 challenges at 80% - I will be extremely good with the tenses at least
Oh the ups and downs of level 2 are even more extreme than level 1 but only 2 more challenges to go!!!