A quick collection of off-topic stuff from the Government opinion thread

“Es pedwar ec”

The consultation wants you to give opinions on how to improve the attitudes of people towards Welsh. So they haven’t defined it yet, they’re trying to.

Exactly so! But not according to the way the alphabet seems to be taught at the moment, unfortunately. So for other acronyms for which the traditional alphabet version as not widely known as e.g. S4C, I’m sure people will probably feel more confortable using the English alphabet version rather than the version of the alphabet currently taught

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I don’t know that that is the ‘fault’ of the alphabet as much as people just being more familiar with written English than written Welsh. (Unfortunate, seeing as it is arguable to say that Wales was the first country to have a majority of its population literate, and that was through Welsh. Certainly comparatively early compared to most, whatever the detailed reality.)
I believe Russian does something similar- I know nothing of Russian, and I am sure someone could correct me on this! That is, it has an “official” alphabet of “named” letters, but the common way to use the alphabet is phonetic sounds.
If Welsh people are less likely to use the Welsh names in such a situation, I would say it’s because Welsh speakers as a whole tend, unfortunately, to be less familiar with literacy in Welsh than in English rather than an intrinsic fault in the way the alphabet is used.
(This is on average, of course- I know people in “anglicised” (with reference to the language) areas who are as or more comfortable with Welsh literacy as English literacy, of course, depending on their background and upbringing.)

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In my submission I suggested Urdd Gobaith Cymru be involved in organising camps for children from Welsh and English speaking areas together, so that the ones who can speak Welsh, but don’t, can get role models who do! Girls and boys of 10 appreciate slightly older, good-looking sporty boys!!! :blush: (I didn’t quite say that last bit!)

Good luck with Neil Hamilton! Sorry - you haven’t a clue who he is! Ex-Tory who remembered a Welsh granny when he wanted a new job and stood for UKIP just as the protest vote went that way!
sorry @aran, delete this if it too naughty! :imp:
To @Toffidil I live in Scotland, make it clear that I am a Welsh exile and would not dream of pontificating on affairs Scottish. If all incomers to Wales who do not want to be Welsh kept their opinions to themselves, that would help. Especially those who expect meetings to change language just for them!
to @elizabeth_jane I totally agree with every word! I hope you submitted those ideas!

That’s slightly unfair. He was born in Blackwood, raised in Rhydaman and went to university in Aberystwyth. He may subsequently have become more English than the English (Dic Siôn Dafydd anyone?) but his qualifications are rather stronger than a Welsh granny.

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Nope, but I know word “Tory” just enough to know they’re more or less “anti-Cymreig”.

Oh, boy … If I compare our (language-cultural) history to yours we’re really unbelievably alike. Many times I feel like we’re brothers and sisters in this matter.

Sorry “policymakers”. That’s not useful to you though so I better stop here. However …our history might teach you something and vise-versa. …

Grovel! I logged in especially to correct what I had put, Yes, Mr. H was born in Wales, raised in Wales and Graduated in Wales. He then departed to become very English, with a Very English wife. He denied ever accepting cash for questions, but lost his seat to Martin Bell. His various libel suits failed. Between then and 2011, I’m not sure what he did. Lots of Celebrity work for Christine may have helped.
I think the rest about UKIP is true. Why he is so nasty to Nathan Gill, I do not know!
p.s. For all I know he learned Cymraeg, but he never seems to speak any!

One of the things he did was to record a song supporting the England football team.


This is something that had occurred to me. A “you already speak Welsh” campaign aimed at those who don’t think they have any Welsh but nevertheless use Welsh words and grammar in their English would be useful in raising interest and awareness and also lower the bar in many people’s minds as to what constitutes a “Welsh speaker”.


@aran I presume it was you who moved things like my opinion of dear Neil into this thread, and I do see why. But some ideas seem not irrelevant to the task.

is one such! I’m not sure how to go about it, but some sort of advertising! Have you submitted it, @robbruce?

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While I agree with you about the general deplorability of Hamilton, I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea that people want to judge if other people are “Welsh enough”.

I lived and worked in London for over a decade, I have a very English accent, and my wife is English. Perhaps I shouldn’t have been allowed back in either?


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Neil Hamilton doesn’t want to come back in!
He continues to live in England, and wants the Welsh taxpayer to pay for his commuting to Wales.

You are right, of course, that Welshness is a state of mind, and considering yourself to be Welsh is the most important thing.
Normally, I would hang well back from making judgments on such a thing (or rather, hang back from telling other people what my opinions are), but he is a politician who has shown such little interest in Wales and Welsh issues until this opportunity for his (or rather his wife’s) career popped up, that I think it is reasonable to point it out.

He does seem to have had as little interest in Wales as Stephen Kinnock did until his appointment, and with politicians it is relevant when people with no ability or interest are parachuted into positions like that, as it can have a terrible effect on the country that we all live in. (Or don’t, in Mostyn Neil Hamilton’s case.)

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That’s a much better stick to beat him with.


To @dave_5 I am truly sorry. it never occurred to me that my words could be taken to mean a criticism of anyone following their hiraeth home. As I lived most of my life in England and am currently fighting my hiraeth in Scotland, I assure you I envy you, I certainly understand you.
Oh, and I truly didn’t know NH didn’t want to live in his constituency. It would never have crossed my mind that anyone could not want to live there, It is so varied, so lovely… I’d give my eye teeth to live in its least salubrious place! I presumed he had some problem selling in England and was trying to sort out his finances. (I do know what it is like to be in that position).
But my main problem is that I could never have generalised from NH to anyone else! I am sure you have not failed in libel suits because the evidence for your misconduct was too strong. You did not have a very decent man, a journalist, so horrified at the idea of you being re-elected as a Tory MP that he stood against you on an anti-corruption ticket, You did not have the other parties stand down to give Martin Bell a free run at you. You were not defeated by 11,000 votes in what had been a safe Tory seat. And, having been forced to stand down and not try to represent the Tories at the next election, you didn’t suddenly appear as a UKIP Candidate in Mid and West Wales!
Also, I am sure you do not sound as NH does at any interview or First Minister’s Questions I have heard… as if he is the only one who is right!
Sorry everyone, but I was ashamed to find the NH was actually Welsh. If I made you feel ashamed of me…well, I’d find a stone to crawl under. He jumps on top and blames everyone else. (In my opinion).
@aran Delete this if I am beyond the pale with it. I admire Christine Hamilton for making a living at being a battle axe. I just am one!

Though I agree with you, I’m not sure we ought to bang on about it to much, or he might actually move back. That’s something no one would want.


OFF TOPIC - And as I guess you already know Quenya is based on Finnish. Tolkien seems to have had a special love for Finnish and Welsh.

{discovering Finnish had been like “entering a complete wine-cellar filled with bottles of an amazing wine of a kind and flavour never tasted before”}

[“Most English-speaking people … will admit that ‘cellar door’ is beautiful, especially if dissociated from its sense and from its spelling. More beautiful than, say, ‘sky’, and far more beautiful than ‘beautiful’ … Well then, in Welsh, for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant.”

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Well, if it measures fluency, excellent expression of points, good grammar and the ability to ‘sound’ like a native speaker, you should get whatever the top mark is!! (I doubt they ever give 100% for a language!).
Diolch yn fawr for your contribution. @aran, @Iestyn is there any way of sending the contributions on this thread, or at least the best of them, to the Senedd?


Hah! I wish… Sadly it’s literature, my worst enemy.